I remember when 8TB SATA SSD was $350
sure grandma, lets get you to bed
This bubble is going to become the entire market, isn’t it. Until it becomes too big to fail because 80% of the workforce is tied up in it. Then it is allowed to pop, costing the western world everything, all going into the pockets of the super rich, and we get to start over.
That’s the entire point. It’s a scam.
Then it is allowed to pop, costing the western world everything, all going into the pockets of the super rich, and we get to start over.
After the bailouts at the expense of the poor, of course.
it becomes too big to fail because 80% of the workforce is tied up in it
In 2008, banking sector and auto industry needed bailouts for the investor/financial class. Certainly, there was no need to layoff core banking employees, if government support was the last resort to keep the doors open AND gain controlling stake over future banking profitablity in a hopefully sustainable (low risk in addition to low climate/global destruction) fashion. The auto bailout did have harsher terms than the banking bailout, and recessions definitely harm the sector, but the bailouts were definitely focused on the executives/shareholders who have access to political friendships that result in gifts instead of truly needed lifelines, or wider redistribution of benefits from sustainable business.
The point, is that workforce is a “talking point” with no actual relevance in bailouts/too big to fail. That entire stock market wealth is concentrated in the sector, and that we have to all give them the rest of our money (and militarist backed surveillance freedom) or “China will win” at the only sector we pretend to have a competitive chance in, is why our establishment needs another “too big to fail moment”. We’ve started QE ahead of the crash this time.
Work force is relatively small in AI sector. Big construction, but relatively low operations employment. It displaces other hiring too.
the shoe event horizon.
AI has taken more things since it’s big push to be adopted in the public sector.
Clean Air
Water
Fair electricity bills
Ram
GPUs
SSDs
Jobs
Other people’s art and writing.
There are no benefit to this stuff. It is just grifting.
Also free and fair elections. Fidesz published a clearly AI-generated document claiming it was a leak from current oppposition party Tisza, as a real program.
Yet another chapter in the fucking AI craze started up by them fucking techbros.
Also, someone forgot that in some places in the world, people have to use older PCs with SATA drives. That, until their discontinuation announcements, Crucial and Samsung SATA drives were several tiers better than, say, those cheapo Ramsta drives.
Discontinuing outdated tech has nothing to do with AI. SATA SSDs need to be retired. NVME is superior and widely available.
Tbh its not a bad call. Used to work somewhere that bought hundreds of 500gb SATA SSDs for laptop upgrades that just… sat on a shelf, because none of the new laptops ordered could even take a SATA drive. Hell, they’re Crucial branded so they’re probably collectable if micron keeps crucial dead for long enough.
That sucks. They probably could give them out to employees as a little bonus thing. Build a bit of goodwill. Rather than have them sit on a shelf.
Government. Ain’t nobody want to get caught “stealing” from the government (they’re probably going to be destroyed ten years after they’re completely obsolete). Waste of damn near a hundred terabytes of storage.
Government. Ain’t nobody want to get caught “stealing” from the government
It’s fine as long as you’re rich. Trump and friends are clearing the place out.
awesome! Thank you shitty ai.
What if we get a lack-of-new-computers-crisis before the AI-bubble bursts
Don’t worry, you can use AI on anything that can access the internet! No need to ever have personal (let alone private) thoughts - I’m sorry, data - again.
MS has been trying to get you to give up your personal computer for years. Do everything in the cloud, please! Even gaming with Stadia! And now they’re getting their wish. All it took was running the entire global economy.
Doing everything in the cloud is crazy. I’m so glad I jumped over to Linux a couple years ago!
Still need hardware to run it on ☹️
Me with my 5 lenovo thinkcentres: 😎
So maybe that computer I just bought will be my last for a while then.
I have 4x 6TB HDDs in my NAS. Around 5 years ago I decided to simply replace any dead drives with 6TB ones instead of my previous strategy of slowly upgrading their size. I figured I could swap to 8TB 2.5" SATA SSDs that had just started to exist and would surely only get cheaper in the future…
M.2 to sata converters will probably come to your rescue. But probably not as cheap as you were hoping.
In my head I thought one could make relatively cheap high capacity in 2.5" SATA form factor by having more NAND chips of lower capacity. You give up speed and PCB space but that’s fine since bandwidth and IOPS are limited by SATA anyway and there’s plenty of space compared to M.2.
Turns out to not shake out that way, controller ICs that support SATA aren’t coming out any more, and NAND ICs are internally stacked to use up channels while not taking up PCB space.
There are some enterprise options, but they’re mad expensive.
I’ve cracked open a few faulty sata SSDs. Quite a few of the recent models are just 2242 or 2230 m.2 ssd’s with a converter. Even bigger 2TB ones.
The leak comes after another report detailed that Samsung has raised DDR5 memory prices by up to 60%.
MF… And why they wind down SSD production this time? Last time was 2 years ago, because the SSD prices were low and they wanted to raise them (which happened).
Because AI is better for €€€
May all bankrupt when the bubble bursts.
we all know as soon as big bad chip daddy comes back with a big discount everyone not in this thread (and even some that are) will spread their cheeks and beg for more.
humans are dumb greedy little assholes that have zero willpower. that’s why it’s so easy to manipulate us.
AFAIK this has already been a problem, you can find Samsung M.2 SSDs for cheaper than Samsung SATA SSDs at the same capacity, because their cloud customers have all flown past classic SATA/SAS for NVME U.2 and U.3, which is much more similar to M.2 due to NVME.
I was planning on adding a big SSD array to my server which has a bunch of external 2.5 SAS slots, but it ended up being cheaper and faster to buy a 4 slot M.2 PCIe card and buy 4 M.2 drives instead.
Putting it on a x16 PCIe slot gives me 4 lanes per drive with bifurication, which gets me the advertised maximum possible speed on PCIe 4.
Whether or not the RAM surge will affect chip production capacity is the real issue. It seems all 3 OEMs could effectively reduce capacity for all other components after slugging billions of dollars into HBM RAM. It wouldn’t just be SSDs, anything that relies on the same supply chain could be heavily affected.
Exactly this. Micron ended their consumer RAM. Sansung here is just stopping producing something that is arguably outdated, and has a perfectly fine, already more available, most often cheaper or equivalent modern replacement.
The ai crash is going to slap the tech industry hard
Not just the tech industry. A huge proportion of the US economy is made up of betting on AI. Like the crash of 2008 (but worse, some predict) it will hurt everyone but the richest, who will become even richer.
There are a number of simultaneous bubbles at the moment, the AI one being a lot like the Internet bubble of the late 90s but possibly worse (bigger share of GDP and it seems there is actually less value in most of the tech invested in as “AI” than on the Internet-related tech) and at the same time there is a financial debt bubble like in 2007 (in the US mainly around loans for car purchase, but more in general overall consumer indebtness has reached the 2007 levels), a worldwide realestate bubble (measured in terms of house-price to income ratios) and a stockmarket bubble measured in terms of P/E ratios, just to mention the biggest ones.
The risk is that when one blows the rest blow by contagium: something the 2008 Crash showed us is that in modern markets when there are sudden large losses on a asset class it pulls money over to cover them from all other asset classes, in turn creating downwards price pressure in those other asset classes, which in turn might cause price collapses there with large losses and that will pull even more money out from other asset classes. IMHO assets classes with historically high valuation not backed by fundamentals (for example stocks with P/E which are 10+ times the historical average) are likely to be far more likely to collapse when money gets pulled away from them to cover losses elsewhere. Also there is the panic factor: fearing exactly what I describe, many investors will preemptivelly sell their assets in those assets classes they feel as more speculative - i.e. less supported by fundamentals - possibly creating the very problem they fear in those markets by starting a stampede to the exits.
All this to say that I expect this one when it blows up will be bigger than 2008 and 2000, possibly bigger than both of those combined.
Going by inflation adjusted market cap values, it certainly looks like the financial facet of the AI companies alone are bigger than both those events… This is going to be beyond messy…
This seems like a non issue dramatised for headlines, they are phasing out outdated sata connection to only favour current m.2.
It’s like gpu and motherboard manufacturers announcing they are no longer including VGA ports in favour of DVI display port and HDMI. I don’t think that was a bad thing.
I’m sure some people who are lucky enough to have hardware that still requires SATA want to keep upgrading to new SATA devices but it’s been enough time. I’m ok with just m.2 now.
There are millions of devices that still and will continue to use SATA.
My Synology NAS only accepts SATA. So if one of my SSDs dies I’m just shit out of luck and have to find a 8 bay M.2 NAS to have a comparable alternative?
Your comment is beyond ridiculous
- Don’t use SSDs for a server…
- They make SATA M2 adapters
- Seriously are you putting sata SSDs in your NAS? Don’t…
There are plenty of reasons to put SSDs in a home server.
And most are wrong or unnecessary. What movie requires SSD performance?
HDDs have horrible random access times, so if you need to process or just copy a lot of small files, say photos, there’s a significant penalty.
Ok, but what are they doing that moves loads of random files?
Rsync, syncthing, backups, mp3s, photos, json files; idk, a lot of tasks involve large amounts of small files. I personally ran into this problem training models on millions of photos. My GPUs would only get up to 25% utilization with mirrored HDDs, so I had to switch to SSDs.
Edit: the difference is also significant when compiling large projects or just using git. I imagine some game servers need a lot of random accesses too.
Tell that to my school division’s IT department, who have us all running Displayport to VGA adapters, attaching to our monitors and projectors via VGA. This is because our displays are either a) too old and only support VGA and DVI in, or b) they purchased displays with HDMI, but our ThinkPad laptops only have Displayport out.
Sometimes it is more a matter of mixing and matching tech in large cash-strapped systems that might get slapped by these issues as well.
And yes, those adapters cause as many headaches as you might think.
I hear you there. Almost every meeting presentation room I use still requires my usb-c to vga adapter and I just have to live with it. It’s the natural state of such places I think. It feels so amazing when I can plug directly into my laptop without an adapter. And yea I agree, they are a headache.
Aside: WTF are they using SSDs for?
LLM inference in the cloud is basically only done in VRAM. Rarely stale K/V cache is cached in RAM, but new attention architectures should minimize that. Large scale training, contrary to popular belief, is a pretty rare event most data centers and businesses are incapable of.
…So what do they do with so much flash storage!? Is it literally just FOMO server buying?
Storage. There aren’t enough hard drives, so datacentres are also buying up SSDs, since it’s needed to store training data.
since it’s needed to store training data.
Again, I don’t buy this. The training data isn’t actually that big, nor is training done on such a huge scale so frequently.
As we approach the theoretical error rate limit for LLMs, as proven in the 2020 research paper by OpenAI and corrected by the 2022 paper by Deepmind, the required training and power costs rise to infinity.
In addition to that, the companies might have many different nearly identical datasets to try to achieve different outcomes.
Things like books and wikipedia pages aren’t that bad, wikipedia itself compressed is only 25GB, maybe a few hundred petabytes could store most of these items, but images and videos are also valid training data and that’s much larger, and then there is readable code. On top of that, all user inputs have to be stored to reference them again later if the chatbot offers that service.
Why would ending sata ssd production create price pressure for m2 ssds? If anything, they should be able to produce more of those.
