Okay so Lucifer obviously upset his sky-daddy, is demoted from being an angel permanently, is cast down to rule an entire sector of the afterlife called Hell which we come to know where all damned souls go after they die.
What is the logic of God practically awarding Lucifer an entire realm for him to rule on his own and nearly contest God’s power?
That’s like imprisoning someone to home confinement when they live in a mansion.
It’s Christian fanfic. There is surprisingly little about Hell in actual scripture, definitely not the “hell” we’ve come to expect from modern media. Most depictions of hell originate from Dante’s Inferno, not from the bible.
Yup. As far as I’m aware most Christians would disagree with the notion that Satan rules hell, and it’s not a doctrine in any major denomination.
most Christians would disagree with the notion that Satan rules hell,
Doubt. Most Christians have never read the Bible, and their understanding comes from pop culture.
I believe in the scripture there’s mostly talk about the realm of the dead as well as weeping and gnashing of teeth, right?
The weeping and gnashing of teeth isn’t even explicitly hell.
10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
It’s just a general separation from God. Which you could call a Hell, but it’s not explicitly stated as a product of that realm which is Hell.
The other things Jesus says and Revelation does heavily imply that it’s hell.
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What? I study the Bible quite regularly
Yep, sorry, that was my bad and a holdover from having that actual scenario play out earlier on a different topic and still being annoyed with it. Then I second guessed myself, checked your post history, which showed you’re most likely legit, then deleted my comment. So nevermind, I was in the wrong.
Ah, fair
Thank you. It’s been a while since I read the Bible the last time.
Wow there’s a lot of bad faith answers in here. Just because you’re upset about Christianity doesn’t mean giving a terrible uninformed answer is helpful.
As for the general answer to your question (no longer a Christian, but did missions work for many years), the predicate of Christianity is that God created everything in the world. Therefore, by basic extension, everything’s place in that world is to worship its creator (and not itself), because worshipping God in this paradigm is its fundamental natural purpose. Not doing so is a perversion of that purpose and leads to dissonance in your soul, sin, etc.
Satan did it first, and as some commented, was the first to be in this realm of far from God by worshipping himself instead of his creator. Like anyone with a terrible addiction, you tend to want to get other people to support that addiction, so humanity is easy game (Adam and Eve). In this sense Satan is like the older sibling teaching bad habits to newer siblings.
Taking this further into the future, you now have Satan and humans who will be occupying this space of “God not being there”. In that time, if none of you are God, it stands to reason that the strongest will prevail, i.e. the angel who got you to sin in the first place. The bible doesn’t paint too much about him explicitly in regards to his role in hell. This idea of Satan just not being part of the harmony of putting god at the center explains the strange way that he and God still have a conversation in thr book of Job since hell is rejection of God from the self, not the other way around. What we can infer from other parts of the Bible about his role, like the numerous examples of human sacrifice and other degenerate activities for “false gods” the picture of Satan is that he hungers to use humanity to make himself a God and that he’s a lot stronger than us were he to do it (hence the idea that he rules hell).
The last little bit on this is at the book of revelation. In the end, the prophecy is that Satan and humans are thrown into a lake of fire. There is no governorship here. This is the final judgement where all who are irredeemable are destroyed. The period of rule most Christians probably got the idea you asked about is from earlier in revelation when the righteous are raptured and the earth is run by Satan (again, not on purpose, but by consequence of being the strongest). Ultimately though, his fate ends up being destruction, not rule. So for a while, he has apparent power by nature of being more capable, cunning, and self-serving over others who have rejected God and therefore have none of the one things he cannot surmount.
You asked a good question, with a very interesting answer. A lot of very naive atheists seem to like to Google bible passages and then forget that there is such a thing as internal consistency. In a paradigm like Christianity, you need to start with it’s fundamental postulates and walk from there. Not project your own completely different viewpoint onto it and act smug when they don’t match. At the very least, Christianity is a centuries old story with some interesting internal consistencies and comments of human nature. There’s a whole fascinating side discussion of this stuff on whether or not Satan is being given the same long grace period that humanity is to accept God.
the final judgement where all who are irredeemable are destroyed.
From where do you get the part about destruction?
It is my understanding that they all will just be thrown out, where there are no good places anymore, because the current heaven and earth are destroyed, and new ones are built, but they cannot go in there.
Revelation 20:7-15 details the final judgement and lake of fire.
Revelation 20:14 NIV [14] Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
So ultimately, the punishment for not believing is being destroyed? Like, oblivion?
Shit, this sounds like a win. I have no interest in eternal existence, even supposedly “blissful” existence. I feel like anyone who thinks of eternity on more than a surface level would feel nothing but existential dread.
The concept of hell does not appear in scripture, it is a Hellenist addition. The concept of Hades ruling the underworld was preserved as “Satan and Hell” as Judeo-Christian terminology spread and was co-opted by Hellenist cults.
In actual scripture, “Satan” is a being who stands before gods throne slinging accusations and slanders against god’s people. The concept of hell does not exist at all, and every time you see the word in an english Bible it is an intentional mistranslation from one of a handful of other words that have more specific and nuanced meanings, usually “the grave.”
Jesus observed and taught a form of pharisaic Judaism that believed in an eventual “resurrection and judgement of all people.” The righteous would be given a fresh start in a new creation but everyone else would be destroyed by cleansing fire, dead and gone forever. This “burned away like trash” imagery eventually infected the traditional Hellenist imagery of a “cold dark” underworld and turned it into a place of flaming, volcanic, undying torment.
Too cool for God.
the bible says satan causes illness but then god causes the firstborn to die, causes plagues, and so on.
the bible says god is good but god is a judgemental ass, who raped a woman and impregnated her, and who forces suffering onto people. while satan welcomes all who come to his realm, to better themselves.
satan’s the real protagonist, not god. and the bible is so self contradictory that science alone holds the answers.
edit: likewise, if you look at greek mythology, Hades is actually pretty chill compared to the rest. He still abducts Persephone to make her his wife, but he treats her decently and lets her visit family and friends. Can’t say that about Zeus, who gets angry randomly and fucks anything, regardless of whether it’s moving
God is an absentee landlord and Lucifer is a fan of man
God is the real evil! Satan doesn’t rule hell, God does. Even more contradictions!
“Spread love and love thy neighbor…NOW BURN IN HELL!!”
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Yeah, why does God have to be judgemental, mannn… It’s not like people do horrific things like enslaving (what God punished the egyptians for after literally 9 warnings) genocide, rape(a sin of Sodom and Gomorrah) cause illness or hoard money. /s
Also, Mary did literally consent and then praised God.
Luke 1:35, 38
And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.
And Mary said, “Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.
Luke 1:46-49
And Mary said, “My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has looked on the humble estate of his servant. For behold, from now on all generations will call me blessed; for he who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his name.
Also
while satan welcomes all who come to his realm, to better themselves. Are you literally getting your theology from Hazbib Hotel? Satan hates you. He despises you more than any human has hated anybody. He is a resentful prick who wants to drag you down with him because his shitty coup failed. Satan doesn’t rule hell. He’s suffering there and jealous that he wants to deprive mankind of heaven.
Didn’t god create rape, genocide, disease, etc… by definition? Or he can’t do anything about that?
Also I’m not sure if a teenage girl can consent when it’s the god of the universe. Pretty wild power dynamics there.
The “teenage” part isn’t biblical either. And she clearly did. God wouldn’t have chosen someone who was unwilling.
God will destroy these evils - but you call that “judgy”
The folly of trying to have your cake and eat it
In the book of Job, Satan is depicted more like a friendly prosecutor or advisor to God than an enemy. He and Yahweh are like frat bros torturing the poor schmuck.
Satan doesn’t rule hell. In fact, Satan is the one who suffers the most in hell. Hell was literally made to torture Satan and his demons. It wasn’t made for the Humans, unlike Heaven
Then he must’ve gotten a sweet sentencing deal because he vacations on earth all the time. Or does that count as work release?
Satan isn’t in hell yet. I’m not sure if hell really exists in it’s final form yet. (Heaven doesn’t right now) It is all related to eschatology.
As if ANY religion makes sense. Don’t try to find one, either just accept the nonsense (they call it faith) or don’t. You are NOT supposed to question that.
I question my religion all the time.
The more important question:
Why do humans continue to believe in utterly moronic fictional BS?
Hmm the way Satan is portrayed in the old testament is like a prosecutor for God. The New testament mentions a few characters sort of like that. The whore of Babylon, Lucifer, the dragon, etc.
I have always been sort of open-minded about the idea of Lucifer,because the people who always seem to want you to hate him and have bad things to say about him/her, always seem to be exactly the types of people I dont like. Considering the Catholic Church for example, ruled over a slave infested hellhole of public torture and execution and brainwashing, I kind of feel like Lucifer is probably the good guy since they hate him/her so much. Idk tho. Not really that religious anymore.
There is a sort of old belief that Lucifer rules over earth and God over heaven. This is based in old folk beliefs of Christianity before it was made into a religion and stuff. One place this shows up in the Bible is when Moses dies, God and the devil are sort of arguing over who gets the soul of Moses.
The idea of hell is mostly a medieval concept to sort of sell the more institutionalized version of Christianity to the masses and emphasize the punishment part, which was necessary when the religion started to become the backbone of the power structure of medieval society. At the time when Christ lived, the Jews didn’t really believe in an afterlife. They believed in a place where souls rested, but it was dark and miserable. The greeks had hades and some other places depending on how good your soul was.
it depends on what you consider to be Canon. personally, I think the Bible doesn’t say much about it because the Bible is a boring and poorly written.
Milton’s Paradise lost is pretty interesting. lucifer is the leader of a failed revolution to overthrow the monarchy of heaven and that’s how they all got banned
Well they need someone there; if you just exile people to hell without a plan you end up with Australia.
I think its kind of a matter of interpretation? The “why” is that he either refused to bow before men (who he thought of as beneath himself), or, the less fun option, he just didn’t follow daddy’s wishes and got sent to the corner.
As for his “award”, that too is kind of…opaque. One way to interpret hell is as the absence of creation, as in literally outside of Yhwy’s world of creation. So either a new second world for unworthy creations to go when they end, or just literally a void of nothing, because to be removed from God’s world should be to be removed from reality.
Ideas about hell being a place where the unrighteous are tortured largely come from later, non-canonical stories, with the biggest name easily being Dante’s Inferno (which itself seemed to be largely about the author taking jabs at people from his own era that he didn’t like or agree with iirc).
I’m not a scholar on the subject tho, so take it with a grain. This is just what I’ve heard, and I’m quite sure that I’ve heard some incorrect and half-true things before.
Satan ruling Hell
From where exactly have you got this idea?
Trump hadn’t been born yet.
Wasn’t he just cast down?
That he became the ruler of hell is because of his own skills.




