unpopular opinion; I believe in the value of definitions of words. I’m not republican (shouldn’t matter) but by bending definitions of words like “nazi” - you’re diminishing the people who went through the atrocities of WW2
Kind of similar to how you shouldn’t say “rape” for something that isn’t. in effect you’re diminishing rape victims
“nazi” literally means a member of the far-right National Socialist German Workers’ Party. Fascist pigs? No doubt. Just don’t change history…
We have people in power who explicitly want to exterminate minorities (see those leaked text messages) and we have a sizeable population willing to trust and empower those people. It’s not bending the definition to call them Nazis.
They didn’t build Auschwitz the day after Hitler got appointed chancellor. They built up to it. I don’t know how you can look at a government that’s literally building and populating concentration camps with people who haven’t broken the law and clutch pearls about calling them Nazis until they scale up sufficiently. The best thing you can honestly call them is proto-nazis.
Plenty of words we now use today started out referring to people in a specific time and place.
Further, what’s the use of remembering the horrors of the Nazis if we don’t recognize the early warning signs of those same horrors today? The “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” was around for over a decade before they started the holocaust. It seems like too little too late to wait until the genocide begins to start drawing parallels.
Wile I respect your point of view here, you seem to be missing the fact that Nazis didn’t just go away at the end of WWII. Many former Nazis ended up in powerful business and political positions post-wwii, and the ideas maintained popularity with the people the were popular with. This transitioned into neo-nazi-ism, white power skinheads, Aryan Nation, Aryan, brotherhood, modern German AFD part, the 3rd wave of the KKK, countless militia movements, and on and on and on. These all have a direct lineage with the actual Nazis from WWII. When we call these people Nazis, it’s not because we’re being hyperbolic about their beliefs, it’s because they are Nazis.
In theory you are not wrong but you ignore that language evolves, in modern times it means someone agrees or at least sympathizes with NSDAP ideology/ideas and no “they don’t hate Jews so they are different” is not an excuse Nazis back in the days only chose Jews because they were a minority and could be blamed for everything.
New account and all you’ve done so far on it is argue semantics to defend republicans and Israel by saying “um akshually, that doesn’t fit the strict definition of the word”
And just generally the argument of “you can’t call someone a Nazi until they have gassed their 6 millionth Jew” is a horrifically bad faith argument that only a complete and utter dumbass or someone arguing in bad faith would make.
Really? It doesn’t also extend to people who follow their beliefs, have power in government, have literal Nazi tattoos, and are installing far right fascism throughout the world as we speak? Are literally seig heiling at political rallies?
Like sorry son, but I don’t just think you’re wrong here, I think you’re so far off the mark you’re hitting Jupiter with that shit.
Well, what do you call someone who takes orders from, defends, and enables fascistic white supremacists openly looking to purify the blood of their country by ordering loyal thugs to violently remove immigrants and jail anyone who opposes them?
Did all “nazis” actively do crimes against humanity? Whats the bar they have to hit to be a nazi? Put on a uniform? shoot a roma? say non-aryans are sub human? You want to draw a bright line between national socialists and racists, I’m not going to stop you, but I think nazi is just short hand for bootlicking people who enable the dehumanizing of others at this point in time.
Nazi was a derogatory term used against the national socialist party but was eventually embraced in defiance. Let’s not change history and make nazi some kind of honored title.
Where does the meaning come from? God? Are we in a video game where someone programmed words to have specific meaning? I never understood where the root authority comes from. Many people are using Nazi to describe fascists but if you can’t derive meaning from how people use words… where does the authority come from?
I think you’re getting the downvotes (and I think I saw a few others mention this) because your argument is rooted in the word keeping the exact definition it was historically created in.
People who ‘simp’ for China are not ‘Mao apologists’ but that’d be a fine enough term for me to understand exactly who, in the modern day, is being insulted.
In similar fashion, no, existing fascists in the republican party are not literally National Socialist German Workers’ Party members, but they DO have a lot of similarities to the values and actions we have distilled down over the last 80 years that we attribute to ‘Nazis’.
So, no, they’re not Nazis, but to call them such isn’t to ‘change history…’ as you put it, and is instead a means of identifying extreme and harmful beliefs with an existing, demonized (for good reason) label to accent the severity of their beliefs as they compare to modern sensibilities related to freedom.
They downvoted you because you became a Dictionary Nazi, the Grammar Nazi’s even less-liked younger brother
Nazi, just like fascist has become an almost generic insult to hurl at people who want to enforce rules, you don’t like.
This goes back to the original Nazi times even. The German communists labeled the social democracy as social fascists for years. Of course the social democrats and communists ended up in the same concentration camps later on.
Trumpism is working towards more authoritarian tyranny.
I agree it’s sometimes overused but looking at the current leaders of the Republican Party and comparing their views and actions to the definition of fascism, do you really think it’s not accurate? And if so what are the main differences in your view?
Trump himself has called his political opponents fascists.
There’s a pretty big ideological difference between Italian fascists and NSDAP Nazis. Trumpism works in even other ways.
Arguing about Nazi and fascist comparisons is a waste of time. It’s better to talk about actually bad things Trump and his ilk are doing and talk about doing.
Constant Nazi and Hitler comparisons do little to illuminate this.
Trumpism is very American in ways that Nazism and Fascism were not.
Some examples: Mussolini and Hitler had came from a humble background. They both were veterans of WW1 and relatively young when starting their political career. Trump is an old man billionaire deeply connected to the establishment. Nazis and Fascists instituted broad social programs and improvements for the working class. Trump does the opposite. Fascism and Nazism were progressive and revolutionary. Trumpism is more reactionary. Sure, there are also parallels that can be drawn.
Trump has more in common with Victor Orban, Putin, Juan Péron, or many of the long list of Latin American dictators.
For more serious differences see what happened after they took power. The state governments were immediately taken over by central government. Under Trump the state governments are able to hold on to power and actually mount resistance. There’s also no totalitarian measures to centralize all unions or other organizations into one. Trumpism is very American and harkens back to the gilded age oligarchy. Nazis and fascism wanted a revolutionary new modern society. Musk and Thiel are the parts of MAGA that have this component a bit. They are the avant-garde, but not the core of Trumpism.
This is a lot of text for the distinction between Nazi and neo Nazi.
Neo Nazis commit atrocities, murders within their limited capabilities.
They are (on some level) the same.
Yeah, I prefer fascist autocrat to make sure people know I’m not fucking around. But nazi (lower case) is a fine shorthand. Neo-nazi almost suggests we’re talking about a non-mainstream movement. MAGA if I want to be specific.
I refer to NSDAP when talking about the German Worker’s Socialist Party that wasn’t really all that socialist and got a lot of funding from Benz and Bavarian Motor Works, and had no small thing for Wagner’s version of the Wotanic mythos.
unpopular opinion; I believe in the value of definitions of words. I’m not republican (shouldn’t matter) but by bending definitions of words like “nazi” - you’re diminishing the people who went through the atrocities of WW2
Kind of similar to how you shouldn’t say “rape” for something that isn’t. in effect you’re diminishing rape victims
“nazi” literally means a member of the far-right National Socialist German Workers’ Party. Fascist pigs? No doubt. Just don’t change history…
We have people in power who explicitly want to exterminate minorities (see those leaked text messages) and we have a sizeable population willing to trust and empower those people. It’s not bending the definition to call them Nazis.
They didn’t build Auschwitz the day after Hitler got appointed chancellor. They built up to it. I don’t know how you can look at a government that’s literally building and populating concentration camps with people who haven’t broken the law and clutch pearls about calling them Nazis until they scale up sufficiently. The best thing you can honestly call them is proto-nazis.
If it quacks like a duck…
Seems like your discomfort is showing. Might want to tuck that back in.
“They’re not Nazis unless they’re from the Nazi regime of Germany. Otherwise they’re just sparkling Fascists.” -you.
But then, by your own logic, we can’t call them Fascists either, since that term was made to describe Italian Authoritarianism.
Fascism describes the rhetoric used to prop up autocracy. It’s the propaganda portion, and leads to genocide campaigns and wars.
Mussolini might have developed fascism so it was admired by industrialists who wanted to control the masses, but it wasn’t his alone.
Good Samaritan
Lesbian
Barbarian
Plenty of words we now use today started out referring to people in a specific time and place.
Further, what’s the use of remembering the horrors of the Nazis if we don’t recognize the early warning signs of those same horrors today? The “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” was around for over a decade before they started the holocaust. It seems like too little too late to wait until the genocide begins to start drawing parallels.
Wile I respect your point of view here, you seem to be missing the fact that Nazis didn’t just go away at the end of WWII. Many former Nazis ended up in powerful business and political positions post-wwii, and the ideas maintained popularity with the people the were popular with. This transitioned into neo-nazi-ism, white power skinheads, Aryan Nation, Aryan, brotherhood, modern German AFD part, the 3rd wave of the KKK, countless militia movements, and on and on and on. These all have a direct lineage with the actual Nazis from WWII. When we call these people Nazis, it’s not because we’re being hyperbolic about their beliefs, it’s because they are Nazis.
In theory you are not wrong but you ignore that language evolves, in modern times it means someone agrees or at least sympathizes with NSDAP ideology/ideas and no “they don’t hate Jews so they are different” is not an excuse Nazis back in the days only chose Jews because they were a minority and could be blamed for everything.
The US is nothing like Nazi Germany, the Nazi concentration camps had trains.
Anyone else noticed a rise in right wing/troll accounts on Lemmy recently?
I have and I don’t like it.
how am I a right wing/troll account for commenting on how language is important
the polarization here is unreal haha
Sir/Madam, your post currently has no punctuation, or proper capitalization. If you’re going to be a grammar Nazi, you need to lead by example.
Again - i was talking about the effects of not using correct language. Grammar like punctuation was not my point
english isnt even my first language
So, you fail to understand an English term and then try to lecture someone who can?
New account and all you’ve done so far on it is argue semantics to defend republicans and Israel by saying “um akshually, that doesn’t fit the strict definition of the word”
And just generally the argument of “you can’t call someone a Nazi until they have gassed their 6 millionth Jew” is a horrifically bad faith argument that only a complete and utter dumbass or someone arguing in bad faith would make.
Really? It doesn’t also extend to people who follow their beliefs, have power in government, have literal Nazi tattoos, and are installing far right fascism throughout the world as we speak? Are literally seig heiling at political rallies?
Like sorry son, but I don’t just think you’re wrong here, I think you’re so far off the mark you’re hitting Jupiter with that shit.
Go home, grammar Nazi, your ignorance of how linguistic usage determines meaning is showing
Ah, sorry, our mistake.
Neo-nazi. Is that better?
sure, for a smaller segment of republicans
im criticizing the broad strokes ppl are making by correlating republicans to “literal” nazis
Well, what do you call someone who takes orders from, defends, and enables fascistic white supremacists openly looking to purify the blood of their country by ordering loyal thugs to violently remove immigrants and jail anyone who opposes them?
Well, you’re a fucking idiot.
I suppose you believe the Democratic Peoples Republic of North Korea is democratic too.
Did all “nazis” actively do crimes against humanity? Whats the bar they have to hit to be a nazi? Put on a uniform? shoot a roma? say non-aryans are sub human? You want to draw a bright line between national socialists and racists, I’m not going to stop you, but I think nazi is just short hand for bootlicking people who enable the dehumanizing of others at this point in time.
What word would you prefer?
Nazi was a derogatory term used against the national socialist party but was eventually embraced in defiance. Let’s not change history and make nazi some kind of honored title.
Where does the meaning come from? God? Are we in a video game where someone programmed words to have specific meaning? I never understood where the root authority comes from. Many people are using Nazi to describe fascists but if you can’t derive meaning from how people use words… where does the authority come from?
I think you’re getting the downvotes (and I think I saw a few others mention this) because your argument is rooted in the word keeping the exact definition it was historically created in.
People who ‘simp’ for China are not ‘Mao apologists’ but that’d be a fine enough term for me to understand exactly who, in the modern day, is being insulted.
In similar fashion, no, existing fascists in the republican party are not literally National Socialist German Workers’ Party members, but they DO have a lot of similarities to the values and actions we have distilled down over the last 80 years that we attribute to ‘Nazis’.
So, no, they’re not Nazis, but to call them such isn’t to ‘change history…’ as you put it, and is instead a means of identifying extreme and harmful beliefs with an existing, demonized (for good reason) label to accent the severity of their beliefs as they compare to modern sensibilities related to freedom.
They downvoted you because you became a Dictionary Nazi, the Grammar Nazi’s even less-liked younger brother
Nazi, just like fascist has become an almost generic insult to hurl at people who want to enforce rules, you don’t like.
This goes back to the original Nazi times even. The German communists labeled the social democracy as social fascists for years. Of course the social democrats and communists ended up in the same concentration camps later on.
Trumpism is working towards more authoritarian tyranny.
I agree it’s sometimes overused but looking at the current leaders of the Republican Party and comparing their views and actions to the definition of fascism, do you really think it’s not accurate? And if so what are the main differences in your view?
Trump himself has called his political opponents fascists.
There’s a pretty big ideological difference between Italian fascists and NSDAP Nazis. Trumpism works in even other ways.
Arguing about Nazi and fascist comparisons is a waste of time. It’s better to talk about actually bad things Trump and his ilk are doing and talk about doing.
Constant Nazi and Hitler comparisons do little to illuminate this.
Trumpism is very American in ways that Nazism and Fascism were not.
Some examples: Mussolini and Hitler had came from a humble background. They both were veterans of WW1 and relatively young when starting their political career. Trump is an old man billionaire deeply connected to the establishment. Nazis and Fascists instituted broad social programs and improvements for the working class. Trump does the opposite. Fascism and Nazism were progressive and revolutionary. Trumpism is more reactionary. Sure, there are also parallels that can be drawn.
Trump has more in common with Victor Orban, Putin, Juan Péron, or many of the long list of Latin American dictators.
I’ve also heard that Trump really likes McDonald’s, and Hitler didn’t even have a McDonald’s—pretty crazy how different they truly are.
Hitler was vegetarian.
For more serious differences see what happened after they took power. The state governments were immediately taken over by central government. Under Trump the state governments are able to hold on to power and actually mount resistance. There’s also no totalitarian measures to centralize all unions or other organizations into one. Trumpism is very American and harkens back to the gilded age oligarchy. Nazis and fascism wanted a revolutionary new modern society. Musk and Thiel are the parts of MAGA that have this component a bit. They are the avant-garde, but not the core of Trumpism.
What in the fascist apologism? Buds pull the fucking head out of your arse.
I mean, that character was a literal Nazi though… Like from WW2
Ooof.
This is a lot of text for the distinction between Nazi and neo Nazi. Neo Nazis commit atrocities, murders within their limited capabilities. They are (on some level) the same.
Yeah, I prefer fascist autocrat to make sure people know I’m not fucking around. But nazi (lower case) is a fine shorthand. Neo-nazi almost suggests we’re talking about a non-mainstream movement. MAGA if I want to be specific.
I refer to NSDAP when talking about the German Worker’s Socialist Party that wasn’t really all that socialist and got a lot of funding from Benz and Bavarian Motor Works, and had no small thing for Wagner’s version of the Wotanic mythos.
Your opinion isn’t unpopular, it is objectively wrong.
prescriptivists are lingual nazis