• HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca
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    11 days ago

    If only there was a digital version of gold, that had a permanent record of everyone’s ownership right back to the first nugget of gold, that would be untouchable/secure in a collapse/near collapse scenario. Something that you could bring with you wherever you go in the world, yet no need to physically bring anything with you.

    Man I would be investing in that so hard right now.

    • dogslayeggs@lemmy.world
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      11 days ago

      Yes, the thing that doesn’t work in case of an internet or power outage. Yeah, that’s a good idea to use in societal collapse.

    • QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works
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      11 days ago

      That thing sounds like it needs a functioning internet and communications system. If society collapses I wouldn’t bet on the blockchain being usable.

      • HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca
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        11 days ago

        And gold? A huge percentage of which people hold non-physically?

        It’s almost like you can come up with arguments that NOTHING is safe without a functioning internet and communications system.

        So…what’s the difference here?

        • dogslayeggs@lemmy.world
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          11 days ago

          Do most people have bars of gold sitting around? No. Do most people have gold jewelry like wedding rings and earrings and necklaces? Yes. Can those bars of gold sitting in banks be easily melted down into coins in the event of a society collapse? Yes. Can Bitcoin be usable at all without internet and power? No.

          • HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca
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            11 days ago

            Hmmmm, so in this collapse scenario, there’s no internet or electricity, but somehow the infrastructure for melting gold, and the manufacture of things that require gold, just…keeps on ticking?

              • HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca
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                11 days ago

                You think if we go back to unga bunga times we’re just going to melt down gold and start trading with each other?

                That level of apocalypae and we will have way bigger and more urgent problems than trying to reimplement the gold standard in a world without electricity or internet.

                Like yes, fire, yeah that’s correct it melts gold. But you really think that’s a strong argument for investing in gold over bitcoin?

                • SippyCup@lemmy.ml
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                  10 days ago

                  Gold over Bitcoin? Yes.

                  Gold is also a shitty investment. But it’s a slightly better investment than Bitcoin. It has tangible value.

                  You’d be much better off investing that money in your community and building a robust support network, a small co-op to grow food, and find a secure source of clean water. If the kind of collapse people are talking about in this thread happens, no amount of Bitcoin or gold is going to be worth anything. But grain and water will be priceless.

                  • HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca
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                    10 days ago

                    We’re losing the plot here.

                    The apocalypse thing is a stupid thought experiment at the end of the day. I think it’s fair to say gold would be better than Bitcoin in a total apocalypse scenario. But this isn’t why people buy Bitcoin. It’s not the collapse of civilization people are buying gold and bitcoin for, it’s the collapse of the US dollar (and all fiat currencies).

                    For that collapse scenario, which is exponentially more likely than the literal apocalypse, Bitcoin is king. It’s an objective fact. It’s literally the most logical solution to that problem. This isn’t to say that Bitcoin doesn’t have downsides. It does. But that doesn’t change the fact that it’s inevitable. That’s what most people can’t seem to wrap their heads around

          • HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca
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            10 days ago

            Just realized this is an extremely poor argument anyway…maybe “does not” instead of “cannot” will be helpful in understanding.

            • SippyCup@lemmy.ml
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              10 days ago

              Fairy dust, don’t be ridiculous. It’s Pixie dust.

              Let me ask you this. If the hard drive that contains the private keys for your wallet is melted down to a liquid and allowed to cool, what is the value of that hard drive?

              What would be the value of a gold coin given the same treatment?

              • HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca
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                10 days ago

                I answered your question so maybe you’ll do me the honour of answering mine.

                If someone breaks into your house and steals your gold coins, what value do they have to you?

                If it burns down, how much will it cost to recoup all your gold back into a manageable, tradeable form?

                • SippyCup@lemmy.ml
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                  10 days ago

                  If you burn down a library do the books still have any value?

                  The thing is, if I have a pile of gold coins, and a bunch of crypto in a private wallet on a hard drive and the house those things are in burns down, I’ll still have the gold. It just won’t be in coins.

                  All of that is kind of pointless because again, both of these things are terrible investments. You’re quite astute to point out the flaws in gold but what’s incredible is that you fail to see those same flaws, using the same logic, apply to crypto only in a more exaggerated form.

                  If you’re worried about the dollar collapsing, crypto will not save you from that, any more than a pile of gold will. Do you think the banks will just lock their doors one day and everyone will still go to work in the morning? Do you expect that trade will still function in a normal, civilized way?

                  Crypto is built on so many dependant layers of technology that if the dollar collapses, crypto will be as valuable as a library on fire.

                  • HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca
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                    10 days ago

                    Ah, but if you can find the book in thousands upon thousands of libraries spread all around the world, has anything been lost?

                    Bitcoin is crypto. Crypto is not Bitcoin. I strongly encourage you to look into the history of money. What has been used as money in the past, why it was used as money…rai stones are my favorite example.

                    Bitcoin, if you are able to understand the mechanics of it, is the “hardest” form of money that has ever existed. History shows money always flows into the hardest asset available. It also shows what happens when that asset loses its hardness. This is why gold has been king for a long, long time.

                    Then along came Bitcoin (NOT crypto, there was crypto before and crypto after), and it used game theory, the internet, math, cryptography and programming to become the most elegant store of value ever invented, which is also the hardest form of money ever created.

                    I actually loathe Bitcoin, even if I admire it and buy it. It’s an energy nightmare. No one will ever convince me that it’s “green” in any meaningful way. And I’m a huge environmentalist. But I’m not an idiot. It’s inevitable. It’s already started. Fiat currencies are going to start inflating uncontrollably and the money is going to go somewhere. If Bitcoin is superior as a store of value to gold, and more importantly is harder than gold, it’s got a long, long way to go.

              • HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca
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                10 days ago

                Yes, you’re correct. A melted hard drive would not have the same value as a gold coin melted down.

                What is your point?

              • HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca
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                10 days ago

                It would be wild, if that’s what actually happened

                Edit: Do you have a charity picked out? Or shall I just go ahead and buy more Bitcoin?

        • QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works
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          11 days ago

          I have gold and can transport it. We traded gold before we had an international banking structure. We don’t need electricity or the internet for the trade in gold.

          Crypto has no utility. It cannot be transported as it isn’t a physical asset. It cannot be used for any other purpose eg you can’t make a hat out of BTC or ETH. Gold and crypto are not the same when it comes to their usability as a currency.

          • HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca
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            11 days ago

            No they’re not the same, you’re correct. You’re totally incorrect that it has no utility. You honestly just don’t understand how it actually works. I really, strongly suggest understanding

            • QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works
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              11 days ago

              I have spent 15 years following crypto. I promise you that I know how it works. The fact is the fanboys are the ones who are mistaken as so much of that scene is built by people who either know fuckall about currency policy or are scammers.

              • HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca
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                11 days ago

                Just to hold you accountable, kindly give me a brief explanation of how bitcoin works. If you know how it works, you should be able to explain it, and if you use Google to explain it for you, you’ll defeat your own argument. So please, try if you don’t mind?

                  • HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca
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                    11 days ago

                    I’ve created 16 blockchains and I’m one of Bitcoin’s core developers. Just trust me.

                    That’s what you’re doing

                • QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works
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                  11 days ago

                  Lol sorry buddy but that’s true. Followed crypto for 15 years and the space is filled with guys who never took an economics course

                  • HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca
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                    11 days ago

                    To be fair, you’re not wrong about your point. But in this case it’s a matter of being correct despite themselves.

                    And again, crypto is not equal to Bitcoin. Bitcoin is crypto, but only Bitcoin is Bitcoin. Maybe I’ll be wrong, guess we will see