While I wouldn’t wish this on anyone, it’s amazing how self-destructive this is. Greta is an internationally famous activist. Flagrantly violating and abusing a person with world renown - along with dozens of other activists - is a radically stupid way to hasten international isolation.
It is well known by most in Israel that the country simply cannot function in isolation. It will lead to collapse. In this, they are giving the flotilla far more power to eventually overthrow the ruling regime.
They just assume Uncle Sam will bail them out, no matter what. They are not wrong, much to the frustration of a large portion of the US population.
The Americans are not the reliable partner they used to be.
Reliable enough, unfortunately.
I actually don’t think that’s true. One of the rare bright spots in Trump’s generally unbroken record of catastrophe is that he is so unpredictable, and generally gives so little of a shit what happens to anyone outside himself, that the chances of Israel suffering some kind of great consequence and the US not bailing them out as we always do are greatly increased right now I think.
Also, yes, I think this is possibly the greatest fuckup Israel could possibly have committed right now. It may be what finally turns the tide against them, after so many decades of nothing. Outside of literally nuking Gaza or Iran or something, I honestly can’t think of anything worse for them than physically brutalizing a universally popular Western media personality for literally no reason at all.
Problem is, she’s not popular with the type of people who vote for Trump. His demographic would take Israel’s side on this one.
I wasn’t really thinking of them as part of “the Western world” tbh. I do understand that there’s a loud contingent for whom she’s just a stupid loudmouth FEMALE, maybe that is a fly in the ointment of my argument. I do think it’ll still have a pretty significant impact.
TBF, if most of the Western world was not either tacitly or loudly supporting imperialism and having violence as virtue we wouldn’t be in such a mess. Israel is a Franco-British creation nurtured by the USA, their first-born…
There’s no assumption: it’s a known fact.
Thats on borrowed time. Money to isreal is one of the only issues left and right agree with. Someone is going to take advantage of that eventually and isrela is gonna get disconnected from the US teet
The
leftDemocrats and the right.Politics are left, right, and whatever the fuck Democrats are doing.
The
leftDemocrats and the rest of the right.
Uncle Sam has Congestive Heart Failure. Their position is tenuous to be generous.
They have done worse to other protestors and faced zero accountability:
Yeah, why would any major players care? Did they ever care for activists?
There are reports from American doctors who worked in Gaza of Palestinian babies being regularly shot in the head.
That was reported during the Biden administration.
Israel is murdering babies, and it hasn’t affected their support. Why would this matter?
I should clarify what I mean a bit.
I’m not saying that brutalizing Greta Thunberg is the straw that is going to break the camel’s back. I’m saying that it’s an escalation of a pattern of behavior that I think is very likely leading toward a collapse of the zionist project at some point in the next decade.
The testimony of those doctors is absolutely part of the same pattern of behavior. And while a lot of folks have looked at the continuing genocide and concluded that clearly, nothing has mattered and nothing will, I believe it has, and it will.
It’s hard to describe succinctly, but Israel today is far, far, FAR weaker than Israel 5 years ago. There is an inertia that lets them feign invincibility, but the country is truly in times without precedent. The longest war since its establishment was 118 days in '82. So much of the assumptions on which Israel relies – constant readiness, bipartisan US support, the total support of Europe, constant Jewish immigration, a strong labor force, a booming tourism industry – is in shambles. Internal divisions are rending their society apart. Their economy, international influence, and social institutions are in crisis.
In this context, this continued loss of an ability or willingness to be discrete in their atrocities really does bolster my conviction that in the next five years the country is going to collapse.
Unlike many, I don’t say this lightly or with glee. I just say it because it’s what I foresee.
Remember when Elon Musk did a nazi salute on the world stage for all to see? Remember how we were trying to rationalize what the hell he was thinking? The simplest answer is that nazis at some point just can’t help themselves and they end up saluting because they love doing it, they just need to show people who they are.
Same logic I think applies here. Yes it is self-defeating, yes, it is stupid, and yes, it is gratuitous and dangerous. But these people working Ben Gvir’s prisons? This is who they are. It’s horrifically simple. The people working the Israeli prison system are low level functionaries of apartheid. These are not people who think in terms of strategy etc. If they had the capacity to think like that they wouldn’t be there. It’s as simple as that.
/Edit: typos
With some of the politicians in power these days, it will be pushed as finally putting an end to her climate lies or some other bullshit culture war topic.
I don’t think any law or any order is actually a thing anymore.
If trying to exterminate a whole population did not do anything, I doubt abusing Thunberg will change things
It is intentional. They want to flaunt their power. Look at what we can do and nobody will stop us.
Genuienly, how is it self destructive?
Is this the red line that’s going to result in…
… anything negative happening to Israel?
Probably not, no.
What, is somebody go to war with Israel and the US over Greta, not hundreds of thousands being starved shot blown up and lit on fire?
I answered this in reply to another comment at greater length, but I’m describing this as a pattern of behavior that I think has already set Israel on a course for collapse in several years.
fair enough, I’m just pissed and being a bit catty.
=[
It’s not. Nothing will change, the west will keep supporting israel while pretending not to
There’s also a considerable portion of the world who hates Greta and is probably cheering them on. The first news story I saw pop up about Greta being kidnapped said Israel was doing the world a favour…
There are also many like us who don’t know who she is.
Supremacists gonna supremacist.
You make a good point. I think sadly it will not rise to the point of actual effect. It will inflame people who support her, and those folks are likely already inflamed over Gaza. Many others don’t give a shit about her or actively hate her, and they will either gloss over this or say “that’s what you get” or even “good.”
My own mother, who is a feminist and wildlife advocate, loves to repost FB memes about her being an unrealistic virtue signalling twat who perfoms a low-carbon image while still not living up to the humble standards of the elbow-grease-powered older generations. It’s sad. Greta is incredibly polarizing, and some people just hate her for being young and idealistic.
On the whole I don’t see this affecting anything. We live in an era of mutually exclusive mental models of reality and they can be incredibly well insulated.
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Israel is a fucking terrorist country. IDF is a new SS. They are new Nazi.
“Never again” meant “Never again to us” for the ZioNazis.
They will never live this down either. Netanyahu’s government has destroyed Israeli reputation for decades to come.
And if you know the history of Zionism, then you’ll know that both the Zionist and National Socialist parties in pre-WWII Germany and Europe complemented each other.
The Nazis got going before the Zions did, but both are siblings of each other.
The Zions have had time to more perfect their fascism tho
For those of you doubting the claims for lack of evidence, stating that you’ll “wait for the facts” or evidence before allowing yourslf to be outraged—
Where is your outrage for the countless other people who were there who personally testified to being beaten, abused, and paraded around like trophies?
There are already multiple interviews with Chris Smalls, a black American labor organizer, who directly confirmed that he had been beaten, choked, packed like a sardine into a small cell, sleep deprived, strip searched, and completely brutalized by the Israeli navy and prison system.
Ask yourself—why does this need to have happened to the appropriately aged, white, European female on a 4k, live streamed or recorded feed with corroborating testimony by the Israelis and the national newspapers of the country of origin of the supposed victim—why is that the bar you’ve set for credulity?
What does that say about you or your reaction to the situation?
Wake. Up.
Fuck the details, fuck the squabbling over what constitutes “roughness” versus physical assault. Fuck the inclination to want to hear “the other side” of the story. Things are going horribly wrong in Israel/Palestine—in a place that we’ve all been told over and over is supposed to be demonstrably above reproach. If even half these claims are true—if even a single one of them is true—what GOOD is it preserving the supposed beacon of democracy in the middle east when they treat foreigners this way?
Even if you think these activists are mentally unwell, or menaces, or being performative, or just doing this for “selfies”—so what? We all know these activists are obviously not terrorists and at least some of them genuinely believe what they are doing. None of this justifies their treatment. Nothing justifies the richest and proudest countries on earth—however much you might agree with that claim—what GOOD is that if our prisons condemn people to absolute squalor and abandonment to the whims of their guards?
HOW is this any different from the indignity camps? These peoples possessions were seized as trophies , their clothes taken, their bodies crammed together like chattel. Do there need to be ovens for there to be discernable lines? Must you feel the radiant heat on your own brows before you’ll indulge the sensation that something isn’t right here?
Wake. Up.
Zios literally said they were going to do this.
Where is the outrage over the hostages Hamas has taken and have beaten and raped? If you’re outraged over unconfirmed reports of a person being treated this way, shouldn’t you also be outraged that Hamas does these things? Or is acceptable to treat people of certain ethnicities in this way?
I dont have words for how stupid your take is. Like I can’t think of a way to describe it you, because this is so intellectually shallow that it would take to long to even get you to understand that two things can be true at the same time.
Here’s a few words for their post that you can borrow: whataboutism, propaganda, tu quoque, bad faith.
Almost certainly an AI generated response. opinion disregarded
Lol, you’re just too illiterate to want to read anything longer than two sentences long.
Lazy fuck.
Idk why this is treated as though its so inconceivable. Greta is hated by conservatives around the world. Most countries have already condemned Israel. They only care what Trump’s regime thinks. Their prisons are notorious centers of physical emotional and sexual torture. This is relatively mild treatment in comparison to many of the accounts I’ve read. It’s still awful, but if they were going to invent a story about how vile the Israeli prison guards were, this wouldnt be noteworthy in any way. Barely even scratches the surface of the things that happen in those prisons.
English really needs to stop calling the right wing “conservatives”. We don’t call them that in other languages, and they literally don’t try to conserve things, but instead always seek to destroy.
I prefer “reactionary,” because it accurately describes their political philosophy and tactics.
Also, it really pisses them off.
Not all the right wing is conservative of course and you are right about it, but you are wrong about the meaning of conservative, being a conservative mean those who in politics uphold the value of tradition, oppose any progressive ideology, and aim to preserve traditional social and political structures
This is a terribly written comment… There is a better way to say what you’re trying to say. I think. I’m not 100% on what your point really is.
Presumably because anyone with half a brain would realize that she should have gotten a far more diplomatic treatment regardless of how much of a genocidal asshole they were. The fact that she is getting treated this way shows how far Israel has devolved to and how much more people people should be protesting any interaction with the country.
Unfortunately, it isn’t the only Middle East country who behaves like shit, whom people in other countries have protested, and whom their governments don’t care. But at least the fiction of what Israel was trying to project itself as has toppled considerably.
Of course she deserved better treatment. So did Sophie Scholl. It’s just very odd to act like this is not a believable thing that Israel, famed mass murderers of children, would do.
Israel hasn’t devolved, the state was founded on acts of colonialist genocide. This is what the state of Israel has always been.
At the same time, she is also a public figure. If they had treated her well, they would have less of a leg to stand on. Whereas mistreating her just raises the question that if they are treating a relatively known public figure in that way, what happens to the less-known people, who don’t have as much of a platform to speak out on.
And Greta isn’t the only person claiming that they did awful, abusive, hateful things. Chris Smalls got it, too.
Chris Smalls gave a chilling interview with Amy Goodman where he basically said that the Israelis treated him worse than he’s been treated in his entire life as a black man in America. That’s saying a lot.
The full interview.
They abused her less than some other people so it is ok. What kind of dumb logic is that?
Where did i say it was okay? It is abhorrent. I said that if they were going to invent a story about her graphic torture, this abuse is comparatively minor compared with other accounts from Israeli prisons.
Throw another war crime on the fire…
Can we just jump to tribunals yet?
Why are you still posting? Literally everyone is tired of you.
Everyone? LOL.
Everyone.
3 downvotes with +108 says otherwise.
I decided to demoderate Jordan in the communities we are in together, as I just am tired of all the drama. I hope he understands that.
Again, not “everyone”. More upvotes since then.
Your psychology is remarkable. It’s a shame you aren’t a top mod anymore.
Breaking: terrorists behave like terrorists
If true, fuck Israel.
If not, then still fuck Israël.
I think there were already plenty of reasons before that, so the condition is unnecessary here.
edit: maybe you really meant if(true) so it’s fine.
Yeah, you’re right. This isn’t the only reason to “fuck Israel”. There are a lot of reasons. It’s lost the right to be a country.
It’s lost the right to be a country
That seems rather extreme. It’s never really been a thing to wipe out other warmongering, genocidal countries. Why them?
Indeed. Why them.
How about a man-made famine. How about supporting illegal settlements. How about cutting off any hope of an independent state.
If any country did what they are doing to Palestinians, we’d call it a holocaust.
They have lost the right to an exclusive ethnostate, just like the Afrikaners lost theirs. They should have every right to leave peacefully in a post apartheid democratic country with the same rights as their Palestinian fellow citizens.
Something very similar was seriously considered for Germany at the end of WW2. Basically, wipe out all industry of Germany, make it an agricultural nation, and skilled workers can migrate to other countries. That’s about as close as it gets to remove a country.
With that said, I believe Israel should be allowed to continue existing. But it should go trough a process like de-Nazification.
Yep, I called that they would torture her, though that was 4 months back on a previous flotilla.
People downvoted that, with no explanation.
There have been a lot of libs coming over to lemmy ever since the crackdowns on reddit. Among… Others
Yeah I’ve noticed a lot of the engagement to what’s said here is similar to r/worldnews a lot of the time. There just needs to be more communities on other instances so we don’t have to deal with the enlightened centrism that dominates reddit on here too and the libs can have their own space aswell
Yeah, like most of the .world mods.
Anyone who volunteers to moderate stuff that isnt their own server is pretty sus imo. Even more so for those that do it with an iron fist
You got three downvotes and three upvotes. It’s not that big of deal.
Its funny that you think I personally care about what people generally think of my opinions.
Its terrifying that you don’t realize that anyone who downvoted that was confident the notion of me stating something that would probably eventually happen was… not likely, not the case, for some reason… but they were also too lazy to explain why they thought that.
You cared enough to write a paragraph that I’m not going to read.
You cared enough to link back to a previous comment from 4 months ago to show everyone and say “see see I called it!”
You response to this news is to complain about having been down voted? I can’t imagine why
Are you 12?
Once again the people who were right are mocked and the the people who were wrong just live without considering the future.
This is another pivotal moment. WE can speak out and make our elected officials (wherever we are in the world) KNOW that their political careers and their parties future depends upon their actions.
Heads should roll. Quite literally. That is the only message they will understand.
Israel has apparently said this in response to the situation:
I don’t see how that’s consistent with them murdering civilians in Gaza.
Religion is an excuse for violence. Prove me wrong.
Religion is just another excuse for violence.
The NAZIs put the Roma People in the same category as Jews - so, to be exterminated as an ethnicity (“curiously” there are no Oscar Winning films about the plight of the Roma People, nor has Germany tried to make amends with them) - and yet they tend to be Christians, same as the NAZIs.
Ethno-Fascists regimes are dominated by Psychopaths and Sociopaths, and these people don’t care about Religion beyond it’s immense utility as a tool to manipulate other people.
There is an Oscar winning film that depicts (in part) the Romani inclusion in the Holocaust: Son of Saul (2015).. The lead actor is Romanian (which, I know is not the same) who plays a Jewish main character, but the film itself directly contains scenes of the Sinti and Roma inclusion in the camps.
There are also several other good films that depict the Romani aspect of the Holocaust—even one whose name quite literally the same point you (correctly) made: A People Uncounted (2011).
Some others:
- And the Violins Stopped Playing (1988)
- Korkoro (2009)
Thank you for that information: I wasn’t aware of those.
It’s a small list (considering its for the whole World) compared to the list of films about the plight of Jews during the Holocaust, and of course not a single one of them seems to have come out of Hollywood, but still, it’s better than nothing.
Maybe religions are an excuse for trying to achieve certain political goals. E.g. a Christian in the USA might say “we have to ban abortion because God says abortion is wrong”. And a settler Jew in Israel might say “we have to occupy the West Bank because God says that land belongs to Jews”. And a conservative Muslim might say “women should not be allowed to drive because God says so”.
Everything else is just busywork, but It’s always been about control and violence.
Ironically, Zionism is an ideology founded by atheist Jews
Swedish gov should cut all ties for this terrorist state torturing their citizens.
They are too busy renting prisons in Estonia.
There is nothing wrong with the prisons in Estonia.
What is the point of your comment?
I’m sure there are nothing wrong with the prisons in El Salvador either…
Are you seriously comparing Estonia to El Salvador? Do you know anything about Estonia?
Comparatively, the Prisons in USA vs. El Salvador are likely equal.
Comparatively the prisons in Sweden vs. Estonia will be similar.
But you’re still sending prisoners off to a foreign land, might as well start calling you Britain.
Don’t bad mouth Estonia without reason. The comparison to El Salvador is insulting.
Estonia is not the target of comparison here.
PS: When you read „country A is renting prisons in country B”, your first reaction should be „what the fuck is going on in country A”, not „what’s wrong with prisons in country B”. The fact that it wasn’t tells a lot about your character.
The most expected outcome of the expedition.
Exactly the kind of thing Israel would do. Very consistent and predictable of them.
Bruh, reminds me of the stories I heard about ww2 when the imperial japanese army invaded my homeland China, they would force people to kneel and sing the japanese national anthem under the threat of execution if people didn’t comply. Its so evil disgusting villainy.
The irony (for anyone not clear on it or not catching it) is that the Israeli military forced the captives to wrap themselves in the flag of Israel—which prominently features the star of David—so that soldiers could take pictures of them that could be circulated to humiliate the activists.
Where else have we heard of people being forced to wear the star of David so that everyone could point and laugh and humiliated them?
Israeli soldiers are so eager to “tea bag” their enemies with their own flag that they’re unable to see the irony.
It’s a sad case of “hurt people hurt people”.
I think it’s a sad case of cunts being cunts
I mean no offense on the whole, but its quite ironic given the reports on how they treat Uyghur folks.
…Kinda like Israel’s irony here. And the US, and, you know, a whole lot of countries right now. Trauma tends to get passed down, it seems.
Israel to Nazis: When I left you I was but the learner now I am the master.
Wow, Israel really is the only democracy in the Middle East!
With the most moral army in the world no less
Zionist gaslighting is second to none.
