we will not vote our way out of this mess

Probably true at this point. However, we did vote our way into it. This was precisely the kind of thing people pointed out as a pretty good reason not to let Trump come to power, even if (whatever much more minor complaint about Kamala Harris.) And then people on Lemmy yelled at them and called them stupid.

Amit Segal, another outspoken defender of Israel, cited the same report in raising a similar alarm, warning that a famine “would see Israel lose even its most strident supporters.”

Doubt

IDK man. If your hardware doesn’t work on the stock kernels + firmware + etc, I don’t feel like it’s the distro makers’ problem to make some extra changes to try to make it work.

If they want to to make a smoother experience for their users (which is a common Ubuntu thing), then great. But they’re not “supposed” to.

“When the men with guns who have always claimed to be against the system start wearing uniforms and marching around with torches and pictures of a Leader, the end is nigh. When the pro-leader paramilitary and the official police and military intermingle, the end has come.” -Tim Snyder

For as much as I respect Snyder I don’t think that’s actually true. People fighting for our own freedom against the US government has been a very frequent feature of US history. But, something has definitely come when we reach that point, yes.

Look at the goalposts go lol

“He’s not a REAL supporter of Palestine”

“Why does it not count, all these things he did to materially support Palestine, from inside the US government where it can actually make a real material difference in a way that almost no one else on earth is able to do when they care about Palestine?”

“Because he doesn’t want to see Israel destroyed. That means it doesn’t count.”

Fuck outta here

“Everyone who doesn’t want the destruction of Israel = Zionist”

Well, by that definition, sure, he’s a Zionist. On the other hand, if you say that a Zionist is a ham sandwich, he’s not a Zionist. The point is: Words are fun, we can redefine them to make all kinds of great arguments.

Yeah. I guess that’s a good way to look at it, is they’re spending so much energy on it because the progressive momentum is steadily building. I just wish their energy would quit translating into success.

Yeah. There’s always something to capitalize on.

There are some fucking emergencies going on, among them the literal starvation of everyone in Gaza. Go up to the US Capitol building or your local Brooks Brothers, or fucking wherever, and spray-paint “PEOPLE IN GAZA ARE DYING TONIGHT”? Fuckin’ spot on, man, please do. Go and shit on the lefty-est person you can find because you found a tiny chink in her behavior that you can exploit and start bullying her over for the next year and a half? Honestly, man, it really irritates me.

I think the reason they like to do it is because she’s vulnerable. If they were protesting the people actually killing Palestinians, or the people taking over our country and cancelling democracy, they might punch back real hard. That’s scary, so let’s go throw some paint on someone who is in a precarious enough position that she’ll have to just take it.

Honestly, fuck 'em. Like I say it irritates me.

Why did a little handful of different accounts all suddenly interject to this same comments section to leave short one-off comments about how AOC is definitely the worst for doing this, all within a few minutes of each other, on this mostly-dead comments section roughly one hour ago? That’s weird.

Okay, sure, that part I agree with. She should have voted “yes” on the doomed amendment and maybe gotten into it more afterwards about how even “defensive” funding for Israel is a terrible thing to do at this point. My point was (a) this is being ginned up into the entirety of her Israel position, overriding a ton of pro-Palestinian things she has been consistently doing that are way bigger deals than this, pretty consistently throughout her career, and I think it’s being done on purpose by people who are trying to hurt the left (who will wind up hurting Palestinians a lot more than helping them through the effort) (b) saying that her and Bernie are weak on Palestine in general is a sign that you’re probably listening to some people who are lying to you on purpose. Those two are among the strongest Palestine supporters in congress, probably second only to people like Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib.

So yeah if you want to condemn her vote on this, fine. If you want to spin it up into her being pro-genocide or in any way deserving of her office being vandalized or her being singled out as a genocide supporter, you are helping some people who are lying and hurting the Palestinian cause (as well as lot of domestic left issues). That’s my point.

How’s your research going?

Here’s some stuff if you’ve had trouble finding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPgpLpKwcIM

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/biden-meets-with-aoc-in-wake-of-her-vote-against-military-aid-for-israel/

because this is something I heard consistently

I’m sure this is true. I would really, really recommend that you take a hard look at why people you’re paying attention to are consistently lying to you, and maybe reevaluate how much you want to keep paying attention to them going forward if all they’re trying to do is deceive you into not supporting leftist figures.

It’s one of the places where her and Bernie Sanders seem to be weak.

My guy lol

Okay, sure. Read up. Find the votes and their statements on the floor, I actually think you’ll find it pretty interesting.

I do not care that AOC has also voted down other Israel funding bills when she has been consistent on funding the Iron Dome.

I feel like you’ve been infected at this point, and can’t really grasp what I’m trying to explain here.

She has not been consistent on funding the Iron Dome. She has been consistent, as far as I know, about trying to defund US aid for Israel in any way she can. This whole thing is a weird and stupid blowing-up of one isolated vote of a stupid amendment proposed by the worst person in congress that was never going to pass, and then a pretty dumb way she chose to explain it.

When has she ever voted, previous to this, to give funding for the Iron Dome? Or did you just make up this “consistency” randomly on the spot because it fit in with the ginned-up stuff you’d already seen about this one particular weird blown-up situation?

I’ll just copy and paste.

For the uninitiated: MTG’s amendment left intact the funding for offensive weapons, but cut the funding for defensive weapons for Israel. So there is literally no way AOC could win. Leaving aside the fact that it was a kooky MTG amendment that was never going to pass in the first place… If she voted for the amendment, then everyone who is currently screaming that she’s a fake leftist who supports genocide could say “See? SHE VOTED FOR KEEPING ISRAEL’S FUNDING INTACT, SHE SUPPORTS GENOCIDE!” Since she voted against it, they are currently screaming “See? SHE VOTED AGAINST DEFUNDING ISRAEL, SHE SUPPORTS GENOCIDE!”

It’s just more can’t-win, let’s-eat-the-leftest-person-because-we’re-super-leftist-I-promise horseshit.

Edit: Here’s AOC voting against funding for Israel, in bills that were actually non-Hobson’s-choice opportunities to vote against aid for Israel:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/biden-meets-with-aoc-in-wake-of-her-vote-against-military-aid-for-israel/

And her voting against the actual funding bill providing aid to Israel (both offensive and defensive): https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2025212

I was going to link to those from my comment above, but I guess my brain malfunctioned before I got to it. I’ve said the exact same thing on this topic a sufficient number of times that it’s like I’m getting that World War 1 disorder where you can’t pull a trigger anymore because the weight of doing it over and over is insupportible.

See, that’s how the propaganda works. She voted against the MTG amendment that stripped a tiny tiny fraction of the funding from Israel. Which was always going to fail, pretty much unanimously, because MTG. And then, when the whole bill (with whole funding for Israel) came to the floor, she voted against it. And also, separate bills which are just for funding Israel in the past

But it’s been consistently presented to you with wording that makes it sound like she had a chance to strip all funding from Israel, and she decided not to. Search “horseshit” in this comments section, it’s a little complicated, but basically, no she literally didn’t vote against what you described.

This was clearly where it’s going. I guess, if it’s on, it’s on. Probably better if it happens sooner before ICE staffs up, figures out what the fuck it’s doing when they’re snatching people other than asthmatic students, and starts getting accustomed to real resistance.

She basically just does whatever Russia tells her to, and if there are no orders, she wanders around like the village drunk causing trouble. I don’t really know why she got involved in this particular thing, and maybe this sounds like raving paranoia, but I actually think her being set up to introduce an amendment which could be used to criticize leftist politicians for being “pro-genocide” no matter which way they voted on it is a moderately likely possibility. I mean, look at what’s happening, anyone who wants to do that with it is able to do a pretty effective job with it.

Here’s her vote against the appropriations bill in full, including both the offensive and defensive weapons systems funding: https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2025212

Search the comments for “Hobson’s choice” for a more complete explanation

It’s more bad-faith horseshit to get leftists to destroy one another, which a lot of leftists love to lap up because their critical thinking isn’t real strong and they love nothing more than being “holier than” some kind of previously respected icon.

MTG’s amendment left intact the funding for offensive weapons, but cut the funding for defensive weapons for Israel. So there is literally no way AOC could win. Leaving aside the fact that it was a kooky MTG amendment that was never going to pass in the first place… If she voted for the amendment, then everyone who is currently screaming that she’s a fake leftist who supports genocide could say “See? SHE VOTED FOR KEEPING ISRAEL’S FUNDING INTACT, SHE SUPPORTS GENOCIDE!” Since she voted against it, they are currently screaming “See? SHE VOTED AGAINST DEFUNDING ISRAEL, SHE SUPPORTS GENOCIDE!”

It’s just more can’t-win, let’s-eat-the-leftest-person-because-we’re-super-leftist-I-promise horseshit.

Here’s AOC voting against funding for Israel, in an actual bill that was actually a non-Hobson’s-choice opportunity to vote against aid for Israel: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/biden-meets-with-aoc-in-wake-of-her-vote-against-military-aid-for-israel/

And her voting against the actual funding bill providing aid to Israel: https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2025212

I’ve also seen people say Bernie is a Zionist, because he says “ethnic cleansing” instead of “genocide.” Both Bernie and AOC’s vocal opposition to genocide doesn’t matter to these people. Actually, it’s that genuine leftism that they represent that makes them dangerous, and worthwhile to engineer cooked-up horseshit to use to get other people to turn on them, so the Marco Rubios of the world can take over un-contested.

You fucking morons

This is never going to die, is it

For the uninitiated: MTG’s amendment left intact the funding for offensive weapons, but cut the funding for defensive weapons for Israel. So there is literally no way AOC could win. Leaving aside the fact that it was a kooky MTG amendment that was never going to pass in the first place… If she voted for the amendment, then everyone who is currently screaming that she’s a fake leftist who supports genocide could say “See? SHE VOTED FOR KEEPING ISRAEL’S FUNDING INTACT, SHE SUPPORTS GENOCIDE!” Since she voted against it, they are currently screaming “See? SHE VOTED AGAINST DEFUNDING ISRAEL, SHE SUPPORTS GENOCIDE!”

It’s just more can’t-win, let’s-eat-the-leftest-person-because-we’re-super-leftist-I-promise horseshit.

Edit: Here’s AOC voting against funding for Israel, in bills that were actually non-Hobson’s-choice opportunities to vote against aid for Israel:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/biden-meets-with-aoc-in-wake-of-her-vote-against-military-aid-for-israel/

And her voting against the actual funding bill providing aid to Israel (both offensive and defensive): https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2025212