Of course it is. Your employer will replace you with an immigrant or AI as soon as they can, that’s how capitalism works.
Yeah you can’t JUST do CS anymore. Why would you hire a CS grad to do your project when you have to plan it to the end and provide rigid specifications to follow? Instead you can hire an engineer or someone from stat or data analytics that ALSO comes with a boatload of programming (and often software architecting) expertise?
It only makes sense to hire someone with a CS specialty if the problem your company solves specifically calls for that specialty. That’s is getting increasingly rare in the age of SaaS, containerization, IaaS, etc.
I’m not sure that works. There were 20 shillings to the pound.
So £0.75 a week.
This inflation calculator:
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator
£75 in 1843 is equivalent to £8,310.96
So 15s then is equivalent to £83.11 a week, £4321.72 a year.
40 hour week (which is implied to be too low). ~£2.08 an hour
So if he worked over 40 hours you’re talking a sub £2/hour wage. Around $2.70 in US money.
I suspect the stat relies on converting to dollars before applying inflation as GBP to USD was about 1 to 5 then instead of about 1 to 1.33
It’s fun but I wouldn’t want to denigrate Dickens by saying he got poverty wrong to make a political point.
It’s fun but I wouldn’t want to denigrate Dickens by saying he got poverty wrong to make a political point.
I think they’re actually making the opposite claim- American wages are just that fucked, rather than Dickens being wrong
I think who you’re responding to knows that and is saying while doing the math wrong makes their point better it does Dickens wrong.
I think
Unfortunately you aren’t
That was from December of '21. It would be $15.69 now.
While the idea behind AI was that it would automate manual tasks and help workers focus on more value-added activities, some workers fear it will outright replace them — and that’s already happening
Yeah, it already happened to the journalist that would have written this article. I find it a bit funny that the picture caption is just the prompt they used to generate it
oh no, that em dash…
I use the em dash constantly, and have done for years, so finding out it’s a big “this was written by AI” indicator makes me sad — I’m not an AI user, I just like the way it looks!
If it’s any consolation, it’s heavily biased in the training data for a reason, you’re not alone
Same. I use it very occasionally for parenthetical phrases because I just think it’s the most appealing way to do so.
First it was funny, then sad…
Maybe if people hadn’t pushed everyone in the entire fucking world into my field we wouldn’t have this problem
Yea bro that’s what they do. See you making a living wage, then flood the labor pool. Welcome back to the barrel Mon crab
Maybe if the field hadn’t pushed everyone else out of business…
Do you mean to tell me it wasn’t a quick get-rich scheme and people who aren’t interested in the field will have issues after doing math puzzles 8 hours a day in front of a monitor before going home to do more on github?
But the rich non-programmer guy told me so!
I’m sorry no software engineer right out of college should be getting paid 100k plus. You have <1 yr of professional experience. Okay I’ll give your inter/“extern”-ship and land you a whopping 50k - 60k… it is and was overly inflated wages…
Cool story grandpa. Or maybe you’re just underpaid? Try adjusting for inflation. $50k doesn’t cut it for starting salaries anymore, and a chocolate bar now costs more than a quarter.
Agreed, but bump the internship up $10-20k for my area. In CS, you should be getting median household income more-or-less for a junior/intern role ($70-80k in my area), and double median income for a senior role ($140-160k in my area), or at least that’s how it works out in my area. There are roles above senior, and those should get paid accordingly.
If their work brings in > 100k in revenue then they should.
you’re ignoring the $2,000,000 in training costs from sr devs and mistakes.
if you want to get serious about cost effectiveness, Jr devs should pay to work at a job.
keep in mind, you fuck up a steak at a cooking job you’re out the cost of the meal + time.
you fuck up a DB after a schema change you’re out thousands if not millions of dollars in outages, SLAs, and sales.
still want to use revenue as a compensation performance metric?
keep in mind, you fuck up a steak at a cooking job you’re out the cost of the meal + time.
What? Where?
To be fair, if a jr dev has enough acesss to screw a prod db from a schena update, then the issue is with the seniors and managers who did not set up the appropriate guard rails to prevent that.
you understand how that proves my point, right?
Idk, I’ve worked with recent grads where their work likely did bring in > $100k in a year. Maybe only took a month to get up to speed. Commits from all devs should be reviewed, and all code should be tested before pushing to prod, so those catastrophic costs should rarely be a problem. We had a good relationship with professors at a local university, and they’d send us their top students. The students would work with us for a while before usually getting picked up by big tech.
Pretty sure my work right out of college brought the company around $300k the first year (wrote the firmware for an electronic control board mostly by myself, which allowed the company to secure a large contract).
you’re almost there…
Okay I should’ve added regional based, like major cities should add above, and against inflation. Like obviously after the first year you can make more dependent on ones performance, bonus etc… I’m just saying like you enter with a lesser salary, and get more. Or you just hop around till you get a better salary with more experience
If your job can be automated. Your job will be automated. Even if the work it produces is hot runny shit.
They would rather pump out pure garbage than pay an honest wage for honest work. It doesn’t even have to work. They’ll just put an arbitration clause in the EULA. Then sit back and count their money.
Two decades of “just learn to code bro”, will do that to a profession.
The industry has brought in a ton of soulless goons and uninterested/stupid workers for a decade and it’s destroyed the industry.
I’m not saying there aren’t good people, but I have interviewed hundreds of people over 10+ years for jobs in tech, and the quality bar dropped a lot.
This started well before AI. I met people from Apple/Amazon/Google/etc. who functionally could not do their job, contributed nothing to projects, and were highly paid. Only a few big companies were the exception.
I’ve met a ton of people with phds and advanced degrees from prestigious schools that were total crap too.
We shovelled so many people into the system because the jobs sounded amazing and they’d pay stupid prices for a degree. We fully industrialized low performance hiring, so yeah, no surprise packages are dropping.
Plus, I used to get time to teach interns and new grads too. The staff we taught grew into way better workers than the job hoppers with 6 jobs at fancy companies over 3 years who had never completed a real project beyond the shiny prototype.
The last 3-4 years I had been constantly threatened about looming layoffs, and that we needed to meet targets at all costs. I’ve been perennially told “if we’re just heads down and all out until [6 months from now/project completion] it’ll all be good again”. Only for the cycle to repeat again and again and again.
The big tech machine destroyed my mental health and I’m out, and I’m much much happier and healthier. I still work in tech, but I’m incredibly selective about the jobs I take, and I’ll never work in corporate tech again.
Biotech is also awful rn
6 figure jobs are still common, but not at the entry level. The companies that used to offer such thing are taking that money and investing in AI, thinking that they won’t need new blood.
They’re wrong, but that’s what’s happening.
Yup. We pay six figs (not high six figs, but still double the local median wage) for decent talent. We don’t pay top salaries for our area, but we are about median for a comparable role. The problem is people seem to expect the top roles straight out of college, when they’re really junior level, if they’re competent at all.
This is bang on.
Nothing will meaningfully improve until the rich fear for their lives
Does anyone from Europe recognize this? Because it isn’t what I’m seeing.
Europe has a much more stable job market, stricter rules for hiring / firing.
This is because there isn’t a job shortage. It’s offshoring. The company I (thankfully willingly) left 2 years ago has shifted all of their software hiring to Europe. And since I left has had multiple US focused layoffs. All while the Euro listings keep popping up. And I get it, the cost of living is much lower and the skill set is equivalent. So yea, get your bank. But, this is companies exploiting Europe/Asia, rather than it being something Europe/Asia is immune to.
It took one year to find a replacement for a colleague who left the company. He was a senior in his field.
Tech is much more than programming / software
Relevant Doctorow post: The enshittification of tech jobs (27 Apr 2025)
Ultimately the problem is an over saturated market and universities letting their programs grow too large.
No, the problem is greedy corporations.
There is an active need for many developers, think of every time you’ve used terrible software, every time a program crashed or you found yourself manually doing something and thought “there should be a tool for this”, every bad search and broken social media site.
Hell, we’re supposed to be in the middle of an “AI boom” and someone has to actually implement all those pie in the sky “automate away everyone’s jobs”. While AI can, debatably, write the code for that, it still takes a person to design, architect, implement, test and validate those systems.
No. The entire technical foundation on which “computer science” is built is crumbling due to lack of maintenance and funding and desperately needs people to fix it, however corporations are doing their what they do best; devaluing, destroying, and parasitizing their surroundings.
Just like AI can write code, it can also design, architect, implement and test…badly
No manager cares about validation. Today’s mindset seems to be “ship now, fix later”
The ultimate problem is greed and an uncontrolled lust for power.
Hey look, it’s the late 90’ and early 2000’s again.
Same crap that was talked about after the .com bust.
This was the start of my career. Then 2008. Then now. There’s never been a good time.
