Polls are a great way to get the answers you want. I don’t know what the pollsters wanted, but to me the question in question is skewed, because one is a state while the other is an organisation.
“In the Israel-Hamas conflict, do you support more Israel or more Hamas?”
So my answer would’ve been “I support Palestinians in their struggle to have their own country again over Israel which is clearly on an aggressively expansionist rampage.”
Since that isn’t an option I can refuse to answer the stupid poll, or say I support Hamas.
Shouldn’t we explain the nature & history of the struggle instead?
edit: obvious pro/contra Hamas discussion ensues. But IMO it’s moot - at least for the foreseeable future - because Israel is so obviously the much bigger monster here, and has been for a long while, and because denying a nation the right to exist simply is not acceptable.
While you’re not wrong, I think framing it as “israel-hamas” rather than “israel-palestine” is the least favourable framing available (for a supporter of Palestine) without resorting to really obvious leading questions.
As such, seeing a majority opinion against Israel is encouraging. I’d expect a more nuanced survey to swing more heavily against Israel
framing it as “israel-hamas” rather than “israel-palestine” is the least favourable framing available
Isn’t that exactly what I said? Maybe my phrasing is off.
MartinSands point is that even though GenZ probably don’t support Hamas murdering civilians, they still consider their struggle as more virtuous than Israel when given no other option; meaning support for Palestine is likely much higher than the poll suggests.
I thought you were implying that the survey was so unreliable that we couldn’t reach any conclusions about support for Israel, or the lack thereof. I was trying to point out that we could (tenuously) reach at least one conclusion.
Hamas are just a group of men whos families were blown up by the IDF. not saying their actions after are not evil but I understand their mindset. If the world has condemned you and your people to death simply for existing, what other options do they have?
back Hamas over Israel
Even here, the setup is false. Anyone remotely affiliated with Hamas is little more than a blood smear on the pavement in Gaza at this point. Israelis are torturing general surgeons to death and calling them Hamas. They’re butchering babies and calling them Hamas. They’re gunning down European photojournalists and calling them Hamas.
There is no “Hamas” left to support. It’s just the stamp Israel puts on the body bag.
I think Hamas is bigger than ever, Israel has given the doubters 18,000 reasons to join Hamas
Anyone remotely affiliated with Hamas is little more than a blood smear on the pavement in Gaza at this point
Imagine if this isn’t true. It’d mean Israel managed to bomb literally everything except Hamas.
I think they just bombed everything hoping it would do a little collateral to Hamas
What the hell kind of apples and oranges headline is that. Israel is a country. Hamas is a political party, not the same as Palestine or Palestinians.
It is sad that nuance is lost in this conflict. If you condemn Israeli action on Palestinians, you are accused as anti-Semite. If you condemn the October 7 attack, you are accused of being Zionist and supporting the genocide on Palestinians.
There isn’t ironic bothside-ism on this. Literally both sides are actually at fault. Majority of Israelis back driving the Palestinians out of West Bank and Gaza, and majority of Palestinians want Israel as a country to be destroyed. If anyone have watched or read Attack on Titan TV series or manga, this is a major theme in the story of intergenerational conflict. Two state solution is the only way for the conflict to end, and it isn’t like there was no precedence to lay down arms and live in coexistence (see how the conflict in Northern Ireland ended when both opposing sides agreed that enough is enough). But there is too much bad blood between Israelis and Palestinians to call quits any time soon.
If you condemn the October 7 attack, you are accused of being Zionist and supporting the genocide on Palestinians.
I haven’t seen this. Most honest anti-Zionists I’ve seen online have been very clear in their denunciation of Oct 7.
It’s more like, “if you don’t constantly bring up the horrible attack from several years ago and make sure everyone knows you condemn it, then that means you’re anti-Semitic.”
I’ve seen online have been very clear in their denunciation of Oct 7.
It maybe depends on which social media you are in. I do see tankies in Lemmy shy away from condemning October 7 attack.
I have absolutely encountered this online and offline, a lot of people understand the attack as being justified by the oppressive conditions the Gaza strip was kept in. Personally I think it’s possible for two opposing things to both be bad/wrong.
Yup, in the eyes of those who support the October 7 attack, taking hostage of and killing foreign civilians–who have no dog in the race-- is completely justified. There are freedom fighters throughout history who consciously avoid killing foreigners and civilians, so it’s not like there is no precedence for Hamas not to follow.
Palestine just want to end occupation. Stop with equating the oppressed with the oppressor
Yes, everyone wants the occupation to end. So do you support the two-state solution and condemn the October 7 that killed foreign hostages who have no stake on the conflict?
Yes, everyone wants the occupation to end
False . Israel never wanted the end of occupation since the beginning. The west don’t want either otherwise they would have sanctioned Israel since 67
So do you support the two-state solution
I support one state solution because i truly believe that it is possible for Israelis and Palestinians to live together in one democratic state.
Can you tell me exactly how is it possible to make a two state solution when Israel separate the west bank and Gaza? Would Israel accept 700k settlers in Israel or will Israel allow the millions Palestinians to be moved to a new Palestinian state that is weak economically?
condemn the October 7 that killed foreign hostages who have no stake on the conflict?
Yes, i condemn Hamas killing innocent civilians and take some hostages during the 7 of October. Now do you condemn 77 years of oppression conducted by Israel against Palestinians including the kidnapping and systematic rapes in israeli jail and during the nekba?
I support one state solution because i truly believe that it is possible for Israelis and Palestinians to live together in one democratic state.
That’s actually even better. But how do you think Palestinians and Israel would be convinced to do that? What people miss is the inconvenient truth that majority of Palestinians and Israelis want the other gone. Israelis voted for Likud, and majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas; both parties are ultranationalist parties. The slogan “from river to the sea” is being wrestled between both parties, meaning they want their opponents gone. As much as I think borders are nonsensical, it serves certain purpose given how territorial and violent humans are.
Would Israel accept 700k settlers in Israel or will Israel allow the millions Palestinians to be moved to a new Palestinian state that is weak economically?
If both sides actually act in good faith? Why not? How else have other countries that share borders with enclaves and exclaves coexisted? People act like there are no precedence; as if we are inventing a new way to move objects from one place to another, as if the wheel hasn’t been invented yet and figuring out how to do so.
Now do you condemn 77 years of oppression conducted by Israel against Palestinians including the kidnapping and systematic rapes in israeli jail and during the nekba?
Yes, that’s why two-state solution is important. That was already mandated by the UN for 77 years but neither parties and their benefactors don’t want to follow.
But how do you think Palestinians and Israel would be convinced to do that? What people miss is the inconvenient truth that majority of Palestinians and Israelis want the other gone. Israelis voted for Likud, and majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas; both parties are ultranationalist parties.
You are using the same excuse used in south Africa. Many used to say that black south Africa would avenge themselves by attacking white people.
If you don’t believe that one day Palestinians and Israelis can forget about their hate toward each other then a one state or two state solution make zero difference because Palestine and Israel are neighbors
Palestinians support dropping arms once occupation end. Even if you don’t believe them Israel can easily reoccupy. Even if Hamas refuse to drop arms a Palestinian state with it’s own army will be charged to stop Hamas. The PA is already doing that. But those scummy western countries and Arab traitors are still supporting Israel and think it can fool us into believing they support a two state
If both sides actually act in good faith? Why not?
A new Palestinian state simply can’t absorb an additional two millions people and would be both side ethnic cleansing. You want instead of a democratic one state two ethenostates?
that’s why two-state solution is important. That was already mandated by the UN for 77 years but neither parties and their benefactors don’t want to follow.
Palestine want peace they just reject deals that doesn’t give them all the right that international law gave them. They should get all the recognized Palestinian land by the international community and a right to an army to defend itself . Israel leadership since it’s creation doesn’t want peace because they are the super military power ruled by a supremacist ideology that believe the whole land belong to them
You still didn’t answer the question how a two state solution would be made when part of Israel is between the west bank and gaza?
You are using the same excuse used in south Africa. Many used to say that black south Africa would avenge themselves by attacking white people.
Not sure what you mean.
In any case, did you even look at the survey from both Palestinian and Israeli side that they want the other gone? How can you expect Palestinians and Israelis to agree to a one-state? Or even a two-state solution?
You are comparing South Africa with Palestine/Israel as if both have completely the same context and scenario. South Africans of all race have a shared culture and history that still made them feel have a sense of kinship. They still call themselves South Africans. What do Israelis and Palestinians call themselves? Fact of the matter is that both Palestinians and Israelis don’t feel close affinity towards each other to form one country. If they do unite one day, there has to be mutual feeling.
You still didn’t answer the question how a two state solution would be made when part of Israel is between the west bank and gaza?
Then you probably haven’t heard of exclaves and enclaves before.
I look forward to being called an Anti Semite, being a Jew who’s been to Israel twice, and watched my sister get Bat Mitzvah’d on a synagogue roof near the Wailing Wall, and was active in my temple youth group until I graduated High School.
Although this question is framed in the shittiest way possible, I would still support Hamas over the IDF because only one of these organizations are guilty of genocide.
Easiest call I’ve ever made.
That’s disturbing, both sides are POS’s.
Aren’t we constantly told we need to choose between the lesser of two evils?
I haven’t heard that from anyone but mouth breathers on forums for the past decade plus.
You are the POS
No u
Thanks for the enlightenment.
No wukkas
They spent so long equating criticism of Israel with being pro-Hamas that they accidentally made the kids pro-Hamas.
Or pro-hamas was the only other option in the survey.
I am American jew. I recently replied to an email from my old synagogue about volunteering in Israel, explaining I have no desire to aid Israel with their Nazi Stockholm manic episode, but to have fun working on the new Holocaust.
not a war
Wtf is wrong with the other 40%?
I think there’s a lot of people who don’t like Israel or Hamas. It’s complicated by the fact Hamas is more like a political party than a nation. If it was Israel vs Palestine I think more people would support Palestine.
Those guys would have supported slave owners when Nat turner murdered somw kids during his revolt
Clearly the decades of Israeli/US propaganda against Hamas has been falling down. Truthfully, I’m pretty happy with the 60%, and expect more people will continue to open their eyes.
They don’t share your opinion, evidently
Its not just gen z.
That’s because Israel is treating it as such. They are treating Palestine and Hamas equally by killing both. If the question was rephrased as do you support Hamas or Palestine the vast majority would side with Palestine. Most people don’t know the difference between the 2.
Not that I trust polls and people’s intentions when they do polls but the comparison does actually make sense since Israeli state is by far the greatest terrorist organization of the last couple decades.
Top bad they don’t live in a democracy lmao
When people think higher of a volte terrorist organization than a legitimate government, it might be time to put some politicians of said government against a wall. Maybe all of em.
The same poll also found RFK Jr had the highest positive approval rating — in fact the only major national leader with net positive rating. So I have serious doubts about the accuracy of the polling.
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