Microsoft is being sued by a man who feels cheated by the current plans to sunset Windows 10. He makes some good points, but I doubt he’ll win.
He’d probably have an easier time with the lawsuit if instead of appealing to upgrade logic, he just went with, I don’t know…
THE TIME MICROSOFT PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED WINDOWS 10 WOULD BE THE LAST NUMBERED VERSION AND THAT THEY’D NEVER NEED TO UPGRADE OS VERSION AGAIN.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32658340
Pepperidge Farm remembers, Microsoft scum.
Nixon wasn’t speaking authoritatively there, I believe both he and M$ clarified that. And the “correlating” announcement was more “we will be continuously updating windows 10” unlike the assumed by many people to mean “perpetually” which is just silly.
You’re telling me you expected windows 10 to remain forever the last Windows version? Maybe if they decided to rename the OS moving forward.
I suppose you could take the stance of it just becoming versioned in the same way Linux distros are, but then you just get left being on an old version of Windows 10.
No, I didn’t expect that, which is why it was stupid to say it in the first place. You can’t turn this around and put it on the customer to have to read between the lines what the business is trying to actually say. How about, the multi-billion dollar company that has entire buildings full of lawyers doesn’t make claims that it can’t back up?
I’m not saying it’s right to expect that the Windows operating system was never going to have to have a paid upgrade again, but it was also stupid and wrong to make the claim that it wouldn’t. That’s on them. Nobody held a gun to their head and told them to lie to their customers and then later claim they didn’t mean it. And furthermore, why give them the benefit of the doubt? You think if you were in trouble because of something stupid you said, Microsoft is going to come to your aid? Is it being fair? To a company that wouldn’t care if they accidentally bankrupted you with a forced update?
And sure, they can "clarify"all they want that he didn’t mean the words that he said precisely and accurately in unambiguous English. It doesn’t change the fact that he’s not some random employee. He is an executive. He knows, and everyone else should know as well, that he speaks as a representative of the company. Otherwise what’s to keep them from lying through their teeth about whatever features they want? “It prints free money! It’ll cure all your diseases! No, no… he didn’t mean that.”
Again, an employee speaking off the cuff in an unofficial way isn’t “the company making claims.”
If this was the janitorial staff, would you have taken them at their word? An intern who waddled on stage? Granted Nixon had a little more authority within the company than either of those individuals, but he was by no means in a position that anyone paying attention would take his word on this particular statement.
The issue here is that the media took this “random” employees word as gospel and without getting clarification ran with dozens of “ThiS Is tHe lASt vErSIoN oF wINdOwS!” clickbait articles. All fact checking thrown out the window, no proper follow up. They just spun an entire story out of his off the cuff statement.
Edit: It should be clarified: Nixon wasn’t an executive. He was a software developer. I don’t believe he was even a “senior software developer” at the time.
“perpetually” which is just silly.
That’s basically how Linux works, especially if you use a rolling release distro like Arch, openSUSE Tumbleweed, or Fedora Silverblue.
Honestly, if Windows followed a similar policy, I think people would be less interested in alternatives. Perhaps charge for access to new features, drop support for older hardware, etc, but let people keep using it if they like it.
There’s nothing that would change here other than the name of what’s installed. People would still be unable to update to the new version.
To be fair, win 11 is more or less win 10 just with a shittier UI and even more intrusive bullshit.
No, they never did. Yes, it was all over the news, but they literally didn’t. Go be angry at media for making stuff up. You don’t have to believe me, go ahead and find that announcement yourself. You won’t because there was never such an announcement.
Notice how even the article you linked doesn’t give a full quote? It just quotes someone saying “last version” without any context of the sentence it was used in? I will give you the full quote where that comes form. Someone asked a Microsoft developer what they are currently working on, and the answer was:
”Right now we’re releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10.”
It is obvious from context “last version” meant “latest version” here. And that misreading of a quote, conveniently not included in most articles, is the only source for all these news. No announcement. No journalist actually asking Microsoft about it. Just a fleeting comment by one Microsoft employee that obviously meant something else, in an answer about something else, but why let that get in the way of a good story.
And this was an answer to an audience question in a "Tiles, Notifications, and Action Center” presentation by a single Microsoft developer, on a developer conference. The absolute last place to look for a ground-breaking announcement about Microsoft’s future.
The company said it had yet to decide on what to call the operating system beyond Windows 10.
And the exact same article you linked confirms Microsoft is still deciding on the name for the next Windows? Which would make no sense if there was no next Windows?
“There will be no Windows 11,” warned Steve Kleynhans, a research vice-president at analyst firm Gartner.
There will be no Windows 11, says some guy who doesn’t work at Microsoft.
And then a bunch of cherry picked quotes about continous updates being a good thing. Yep, continous updates, just like we got in Windows Vista, and that have nothing to do with there not being new Windows versions.
Modern journalism is useless. Someone made up a thing, everyone else copied it. And not a single media outlet actually asked Microsoft about it. No one. Or maybe they did, but the answer meant there is no news, so let’s ignore it.
It’s a free upgrade. Bitching about the version is insane. It was a marketing change they turned around on. It still meant you get a free upgrade which used to cost money.
Not if your PC doesn’t support some arbitrary requirements. I can’t upgrade because of the TPM requirement. There are ways to get around it. But at the same time Windows 11 isn’t really something I want to upgrade to. It’s got a bunch of crap I don’t need or want. Not that Windows 10 didn’t. Windows 11 is just worse and I’ve drawn a line.
I have to use Windows 11 for work so I know what I’m missing. Nothing. Well, the screenshot button being mapped to the snipping tool is nice. But there is already a shortcut for the snipping tool.
TPM isn’t arbitrary, it’s the path to a new from of CPU embedded, digital rights management that will marry your software to your cpu and make it non-transferable. The end goal being some successor of pluton where all code you download is encrypted and you can’t ever see it.
You won’t be able to jailbreak your PC in the future, just like 99% of smartphones.
Absolute nonsense 🤣
Hail the corporate god! Repent, for the end of Windows 10 is near!
Judging from your username, you also like those built-in AI features.
No, just an understanding how a court room works.
That wasn’t legally binding.
Its funny since when the .iso for Windows 11 first became available, it would state you were installing Windows 10 or even Windows Server edition but after installing, it would be Windows 11
Window build numbers are still Windows 10.xxxxxx
Because MS went back on their promise that Win10 would be the last, you can no longer trust anything they say.
And that’s why if you open the command line in Windows 11 you will read:
10.0.26200.5742
Et voilà!
Looking into switching to Linux…
Do it.
If you have an old laptop, put Linux on it, get comfortable using it. Then when you are ready, make the full switch on your main computer.
I have used Linux for a few years mostly on my servers, but that’s what I did to get used to the desktop experience. I setup a second SSD to have the option of dual booting if I needed it. That was back in March and I haven’t booted into Windows once.
Yeah I tried. Turns out my fingerprint reader isn’t supported on Linux and never will be and my audio sounded like absolute trash. I probably could have have fixed the audio issue but the fingerprint thing turned me off. Went back to Windows 11 which works just fine for me.
As someone who recently made the switch, DM me if there’s anything I can help with. A lot of the Linux Bros on here will be completely unhelpful out of smug superiority. Also, if you have an HP, you will almost certainly have to do a LOT more work (I had to learn to edit GRUB config files pre-startup). It will be much easier if you don’t have an HP. Anyway, open offer. Also, do Linux Mint.
I’m the same, I’ve got a perfectly good desktop machine that isn’t Win11 compatible, as well as a Windows 11 laptop.
Most of what I do on the desktop is browser based, and I have the laptop in case I brick the desktop, so nothing to lose by trying.
Ironically, if I’d been able to upgrade to 11, there’s no way I’d bother with any of this.
As someone who recently made the switch, DM me if there’s anything I can help with. A lot of the Linux Bros on here will be completely unhelpful out of smug superiority. Also, if you have an HP, you will almost certainly have to do a LOT more work (I had to learn to edit GRUB config files pre-startup). It will be much easier if you don’t have an HP. Anyway, open offer. Also, do Linux Mint.
Hey, Microsoft said 10 was the last version of Windows…
It’s the last version of Windows I’ll ever install, so the statement was accurate but incomplete.
The last version I’ll ever install was 7, so I guess they’re back to lying!
7 was great, but 10 leveled out really fast and was amazing for a decade. Legit OS.
I assume the top-level takeaway is that we’re all getting pushed to Linux, but just on slightly varying timelines. :)
Yup. I gotta start figuring it out soon
Sometimes YOU have to make changes that you want to see. And not wait for corporations
I’m old enough to remember when MS said Windows 10 would be the last Windows and they’d just update it over time.
Kinda glad that wasn’t the case because those of us who’ve been using Windows 10 all this time would just end up with what Windows 11 is but masquerading as Win 10.
I’m more comfortable with being pushed back into the Linux pool and relearning how to swim those waters.
Having gone from 10 to 11 - it’s pretty much windows 10, at least to an average user like myself … I’m tech savvy enough for Linux but I prefer windows for gaming.
Have to say so far I’m pretty happy with windows 11 but I’m just a random guy who uses it to play video games and that’s about it on that PC so if you’re doing anything crazy under the hood I’m sure there’s some noticeable differences.
I hope he wins.
Windows peaked with XP. 7 was alright. 8 was a free fall of a downward slide falloff.
Appified overly complicated slop and bloat filled garbage ever since.
IDK I liked 7 pretty much as much as I like XP. For me it was 10 that was just alright.
My brother convinced me to switch to 11 when I built my most recent gaming desktop and I somewhat regret listening to him but I know dual booting is a waste of time for me and I’m not quite ready to make the full jump to Linux because my desktop has a 4070 Super. It’ll ahve to wait until my next PC. Fortunately, I don’t have the version of 11 with Recall pre-installed at least.
I use my Steam Deck more than my gaming desktop these days anyway.
Why is the 4070 an issue regarding linux? Nvidia drivers have come a long way since the beginning of the year, currently running modded cyberpunk on my 3070 Ti without issues.
Nvidia on modern Linux (Wayland) is garbage and I’m buying AMD next time.
Like seriously, people will try and tell you “oh you can install the proprietary driver easily now and they’ve come a long way”
Sure, but it’s still garbage. I can’t even full screen a video in Firefox without a it crashing and a bunch of apps simply refuse to work without shitty environment variable hacks to drop back to software rendering
I’m not a noob either, I’ve been using Linux as my primary OS since 2008
I just tried fullscreen youtube and it worked flawlessly, and i had a lot more luck than you with different apps. we can at least agree that it isn’t consistently stable depending on configuration, and i feel pretty lucky that my nobara installation is one of the happy ones.
Performance is still noticeably worse. Based on some cursory research, the 4070 Super gets like ~20% less FPS on Bazzite compared to Windows on a 4070 Super and I tend to play high fidelity shooters on my desktop so frames per second matters.
Win 7 for me. It didn’t try to fix what wasn’t broken.
Win 11, like so many things today, feels like it’s just hostile towards users. They change shit for the sake of it, like where the fuck is My Computer? Why is it so bloody hard to find anything from the start menu, no I don’t want to search Bing for a settings menu thats in every other version since I can remember, no I don’t want be reminded every 3 days to give you my data for “customization” purposes.
They are a monopoly protected by patents. Completely unamerican philosophically.
The end of the article misses one possible way to deal with your computer, migrating to Linux. It’s not possible for all the mass of people, but it’s still a possibility.
Hell yes.
Switch to Mint, folks! It’s easy and works just like Windows, except better.
It very much is. If you’re willing to invest a few hours of your time to learn something new, you can absolutely switch to Linux.
It’s been clear for years now that I’ll have to fully switch over to Linux eventually once Windows is completely locked down like Macs are. The Steam Deck has been a great stepping stone to getting more comfortable with using it.
Never forget we were told Windows 10 would be the last version. That all updates from then on would be only to Windows 10.
That was one person who phrased something poorly and it was taken out of context. Sadly.
Literally why I paid for a new version instead of… Finding other ways to install it.
That’s on us though for believing scumbag corporations won’t just straight up lie to sell stuff I suppose :(
I agree that windows should not stop supporting previous versions of windows. Especially when going from windows 10 to 11 wasn’t at all that big of a change. They very easily could have waited longer before making windows 11 the standard or even windows 11 period because it was not that big of a change.
Unfortunately they did not do anything illegal in my opinion but we’ll have to see how this plays out I guess.
And windows 10 will be the last windows. Did everyone forget that??
I remember!
If you don’t switch on SecureBoot, that can still be the truth.
I mean I would rather use linux if I could get away with it. Unfortunately I have a lot of engineering programs on my pc that I know for a fact would definitely not run on linux which sucks I guess since I am stuck with windows. I thought about dual booting my pc but then immediately realized that is problematic XD.
The issue isn’t so much about the actual OS change, as it is about their dumb forced requirement of a TPM. A lot of perfectly fine PC’s don’t have one or don’t have it enabled, as it can cause headaches. If they dropped that requirement, a lot fewer people would care about the switch.
I’ve got an ROG B550E motherboard in my PC, built in July 2021. It’s perfectly fine, perfectly capable. Big ‘ole 3090 in it, plenty of ram… I have zero need to upgrade right now.
It has a firmware TPM option, but that involves doing stuff like updating the bios, configuring some stuff and runs the risk of potentially breaking something. Now, I’m willing to give that a go if push comes to shove, but your average consumer just doesn’t want to deal with that hassle.
Which means that a lot of folks are going to be running an unsupported OS or buying new PC’s when the old ones are still more than capable. You can guess what I think will happen…
Ah that makes sense. I didn’t know what TPM was until today. Surprised that wasn’t in the details in the new article to be honest. Or maybe it was but because I didn’t know what TPM is I didn’t make sense of it.
Microsoft Windows is going to face a challenge in the future with Linux because eventually it will be a bigger thing than Windows and if Windows is unable to change their model Microsoft will not be able to do anything about it. Hence why when Microsoft over a decade ago was faced with the challenge that they were a monopoly and instead of them giving half their stock to Linux, they gave it to Apple so that Apple would compete with Microsoft and they knew they had beaten them once in competition and they can more than easily do it again. Where as with Linux it would be too hard. Especially with the open source capabilities Linux has making it very hard to compete with once it gets too big.
If I can’t get my PC on 11 without hassle, I’m likely to switch to Linux anyway. I’ve beenhearing great things about Linux Mint for gaming. And I’ve owned a Steam Deck since release, so gaming on a Linux system really doesn’t scare me anymore.
And with the current trend of people wanting to take a but more control back from big tech, Microsoft very well might permanently lose customers to Linux. And once they make that switch, they’re not likely to switch back.
Nice! I will probably do that same but with steamos instead. Good luck!
Even if he does win, it’s still Windows, still under their control. It’d be maliciously and quite supraliminaly enshittified until it’s unusable. Just slap on a CachyOS or anything else open source
supraliminal
Thanks for my word of the day!
Its a fun fantasy but Microsofts pockets are way too deep to lose to some avarage joe.
Also they can be exempt from the law by gifting donnie and co gold, or initiating “christian friendly initiatives”.
Lol who downvoted this
Good, fuck ‘em.
I’ve seen this episode before. something, something, WinXP.
Come on, just leave Windows all together
