A video that captured the brutal arrest of a Black college student pulled from his car and beaten by officers in Florida has led to an investigation and calls for motorists to consider protecting themselves by placing a camera inside their vehicles.
The footage shows that William McNeil Jr., 22, was sitting in the driver’s seat, asking to speak to the Jacksonville deputies’ supervisor, when authorities broke his window, punched him in the face, pulled him from the vehicle, punched him again and threw him to the ground.
I’d be interested to see if that ruling would apply with video evidence and no illegal fire arm or reasonable suspicion on the part of the officer. That case seems to uphold the idea of a search on the grounds of reasonable suspicion. That’s not the case here.
Here’s the full bodycam footage. I was right about him failing to ID.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i88VDrI3VA
He commits a misdemeanor 21 seconds after the stop begins.
Cop: “Give me your driver’s license, registration,”
Dude: “No.”
Cop: “… and proof of insurance.”
Dude: “No. Call your supervisor.”
That “no” is enough to arrest him. Most cops won’t do it, they’ll have a conversation about it instead of just busting out the cuffs, but if you go out of your way to piss them off, sometimes they will not. We’re past reasonable suspicion at that point. He pulled him over, explained the reason, and asked for ID, and the guy refused. This is an excellent way to get arrested, and refusing to cooperate with the arrest is an excellent way to get dragged out of the car and thrown around. IDK what the guy expected to happen. The only reason this is news is because the cop hit him in the face, but this was 100% a dude-created situation from start to finish.
The stated reason for the stop is driving without headlights on in inclement weather. Its not raining, its full daylight, a bit overcast. In my opinion the stop is not justified, so the officer has no legal basis to ID the driver.
… said any number of people, right before they got arrested.
There are circumstances where you can refuse to ID. Probably the only video I can ever remember which featured a supervisor showing up and actually taking the side of the suspect, was a cop hassling a person who was taking video of a police department, some patrolman came out and asked for ID, and the guy told him to get lost because he wasn’t doing anything. That sort of falls into “bold move Cotton” territory, but it is legal, and when the supervisor showed up he told the cop so and ordered him to just leave the guy alone.
Refusing to ID on a traffic stop because you disagree with the reason for the stop is going to get you arrested, it’s going to make it harder to fight the original citation even if you are in the right, and it’s going to get you additional charges that are a much bigger deal than the original traffic citation. That’s just reality, both legal reality and how it’s going to happen in practice. You don’t have to agree with the cop to have to provide ID, otherwise any random person ever pulled over for anything at all could just tell the cop to get lost, I don’t agree, and the cop would have to leave and the person could go on their way.
You see you your interpretation of the law strips you of your 4th amendment rights? You are saying that the police have the right to stop and ID anyone at anytime.
No. There are a lot of circumstances where you can refuse to ID. A traffic stop for a specific infraction isn’t one of them. There’s actually a lot that goes into the courts trying to strike a reasonable balance.
Wait, am I crazy, or did I literally give an example of a situation where you don’t have to ID in the comment you’re replying to? I feel like probably the useful content of this conversation is at an end…
It wasn’t raining.
There was no reason for them to escalate.
This is a common tactic used to go after people of color, it isn’t remotely new.
Why in the absolute fuck are you advocating for people to just swallow fucking boot all the damn time?
Challenging this nonsense is the way, historically, any change has happened. You are just arguing against people doing the right thing and saying “but its OK because cops are taught to do this”.
No shit. Thats the fucking problem. He knew what was happening and what would happen, thats why he asked for a supervisor.
The fact that you think this would have gone substantially better for him by just complying shows a complete and utter ignorance of the history of policing.
Or approval of the entire history of policing.
“Can I see your ID?”
“Sure, here you go. You know this is bullshit, though. It’s not raining.”
“HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT TO ME YOU DIRTY (baton strike) FILTHY (baton strike) MOTHER (baton strike) FUCKER”
I mean, maybe. That’s kind of how it used to be, I grew up during that time, it happened to some people I knew. One of the big changes that’s happened recently is that almost always when the cops behave that way in the modern day, they actually get charges. That’s new, like within just the last few years that it started happening consistently. How did that change happen? That’s actually a really important question, and I think you’re glossing over a lot of how we got there by looking at the whole thing through this absolutely absurd lens.
Man… we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this, and just leave it at that.
Allow me to update with a personal experience:
And then I was arrested for suspicion of being under the influence (because I had the gall to talk back to a cop), and my car was impounded for being unfit for the road.
Just to note here - no, I was not under the influence of anything, and my brake lights absolutely were not out. My friend recording audio on his feature phone (because thats how long back this story goes) got the charges dropped, and the goddamn manual in the fucking car proved me right about the damn parking lights.
Yes this shit happens. Yes this shit continues to happen.
Yes, you are incredibly fucking ignorant if you think otherwise.
Edit: I hit send too quickly because of how pissed off your comment made me.
BECAUSE PEOPLE STARTED PROTESTING AFTER THIS SHIT KEPT HAPPENING, AND PEOPLE FUCKING DIED.
Thats how.
Edit 2 because of how much this pissed me off.
And its still only the worst and most newsworthy examples, and even for those many end up being a slap on the wrist at best.
People still getting fucking shot and killed in their own bedrooms because cops can’t get a fucking address right, attending talks where they get told how hot it is to get laid after you killed someone, with far right pieces of shit being ingrained in the police for literally fucking decades, and you really think just fucking comply is a “smart” decision.
Ffs, the absolute goddamn privilege in those replies.
Im the video you cite (guy in Texas holding signs?) the officers ask for ID and he refused because they have no legal basis to ask him. Similarly in the Florida traffic stop, the officers have no legal basis fir the stop. End of story. You no more have to comply with police, when they are not legally executing their duties, than you do with any random stranger on the street asking for your ID.
The Florida guy was not stopped on suspicion of having committed a crime, because driving without headlights during the day is not a crime. Therfore there is no legal basis for the officer to demand ID. If you think that the officer _thought _ driving without headlights is a traffic violation , and was therfore justified in the stop, you just overturned the 4th amendment, as any officer could claim they thought x or y is a crime and therfore stop anyone yhey choose, for any reason they choose.
I think I’m just going to say this one more time and then be done with this thread: There are a lot of people who offer the legal theory you’re saying here, right before they get arrested on charges that stick. You can find literally thousands of them on YouTube.
Please show me some evidence of an illigal stop leading to an arrest and conviction on the charge of the original stop,or failure to ID.
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