I’ve written before on electoralism. There are a few issues with @Diva@lemmy.ml point of view here.
To be clear I am not saying that elections are the only thing that matter or the only thing that we should be doing; just that it is foolish to be ignoring them. Ideally, we should be having our own party, but in places where that is not possible, we should participate in primaries and vote as left as possible. Diva’s dismissiveness here is effectively saying we should step out of the way and let fascists have their way. Harm reduction is still important.
I will also just tag a comment here that voting is still a form of organizing and building credibility. If you have a movement and can persuade its members to vote then said members can also be persuaded to protest or strike. In the west voting carries little personal harm, so if people find that too tall then one can be sure that any higher order resistance might not happen.
At a minimum we should all be voting left in primaries to have statistics that there is in fact a left leaning populace that is being ignored. Protest votes and spoiled ballots are also good moves to do.
Diva is not wrong that the dems are also capitalists, but their apathy is discouraging leftist unity and changes to our material conditions.
Diva’s dismissiveness here is effectively saying we should step out of the way and let fascists have their way.
This is a false binary. I criticize democrat politicians for arming a genocide, that’s me demanding better from them because their actions on that front cost them the election and tens of thousands of people their lives.
Harm reduction is still important
Harm reduction for whom? did it include Palestinians getting bombed with US weapons? any of other victims of US foreign policy? Trump couldn’t operate with impunity as he is if the democrats didn’t set him up for it.
voting is still a form of organizing and building credibility
No it fucking isn’t. Organizing is organizing. Be it building dual power, mutual aid networks, unions, affinity groups, whatever. Voting is the bare minimum civic participation. Conflating them is a diversionary tactic designed to make people think they’ve done something groundbreaking by filling in a ballot.
If you have a movement and can persuade its members to vote then said members can also be persuaded to protest or strike
completely backwards. Movements don’t start with voting and scale up to strikes. they start with material organizing and sometimes engage in electoral politics tactically (ideally with an actual workers party)
At a minimum we should all be voting left in primaries
Funny, did this in the 2024 ‘primaries’ with uncommitted votes; all warning signs were completely ignored. surely if we keep trying the same things will work out eventually.
their apathy is discouraging leftist unity
I’m not apathetic, I’m actually quite involved in irl organizing (actual organizing, not electoral). I’m just not particularly invested in the democratic party.
For many vulnerable people. Its good that you are unaffected by the election results, but please check your privilege.
Voting is the bare minimum civic participation.
A bare minimum that mls cannot be bothered to do. As such they have no credibility to doing higher level activity.
Funny, did this in the 2024 ‘primaries’ with uncommitt…
Are you aware that there have been elections before that? We should have been organized long before. J Edgar Hoover thanks you for your contributions. You are the leftist he would wish to see. Disorganized and unwilling to take actions.
I’m not apathetic, I’m actually quite involved in irl organizing (actual organizing, not electoral). I’m just not particularly invested in the democratic party.
Right, you cared so much you couldn’t spare an afternoon every two years? Maybe skip the shit posting a few days to get some of the time to do so. Not all of us are so privileged as to not care about the harm reduction at the least.
Its good that you are unaffected by the election results
I’m actually pretty fucking affected by them, I’m a trans woman and plenty fucking familiar with economic precarity. I’ve been having my prescriptions fucked with on and off ever since Trump got in office, my insurance even stopped covering pretty much every formulation of estrogen other than ones used by cis women
You’re lecturing me about privilege because you don’t like how I feel about your preferred party of genocide enablers.
A bare minimum that mls cannot be bothered to do.
I’ve voted in pretty much every fucking election on and off year in my adult life, plus I’m an anarchist.
J Edgar Hoover thanks you for your contributions
It’s rich accusing me of being a fed/useful idiot while identifying voting for the democratic party as the truly useful activity.
You couldn’t spare an afternoon every two years?
Once more, I’ve fucking voted every year for over two decades. I even vote in municipal elections, those happen on odd numbered years.
feel free to continue attacking straw targets though I guess.
It’s not like you’ve read anything I’ve said. You couldn’t even seem to register that I vote in these fucking elections routinely and still find the democrats disgusting.
I also did read and respond to that, you called me privileged without engaging with anything I said.
And I never said you were wrong to do so. I am saying your bad attitude around voting is undermining our leftist movements by being needlessly divisive.
personally I find sending unlimited weapons to a genocide to be needlessly divisive.
And therefore we should ignore voting even more? The ml position here reads like abstinence; which is effectively to give up.
feel free to continue trying to tone police my ‘bad attitude’ (criticizing democrats)
Talk about a strawman. Like I said earlier. It would be ideal for us to have our own party. It would be great if mls like you would join us in support of it. Until then the progressive wing of US politics lives in the dem party and it would be helpful to our movement to help it grow as much as it can.
And since you care so much about strawmanning; don’t forget I did say voting is only one thing we should do. Not the only thing ;)
I’ve written before on electoralism. There are a few issues with @Diva@lemmy.ml point of view here.
To be clear I am not saying that elections are the only thing that matter or the only thing that we should be doing; just that it is foolish to be ignoring them. Ideally, we should be having our own party, but in places where that is not possible, we should participate in primaries and vote as left as possible. Diva’s dismissiveness here is effectively saying we should step out of the way and let fascists have their way. Harm reduction is still important.
I will also just tag a comment here that voting is still a form of organizing and building credibility. If you have a movement and can persuade its members to vote then said members can also be persuaded to protest or strike. In the west voting carries little personal harm, so if people find that too tall then one can be sure that any higher order resistance might not happen.
At a minimum we should all be voting left in primaries to have statistics that there is in fact a left leaning populace that is being ignored. Protest votes and spoiled ballots are also good moves to do.
Diva is not wrong that the dems are also capitalists, but their apathy is discouraging leftist unity and changes to our material conditions.
This is a false binary. I criticize democrat politicians for arming a genocide, that’s me demanding better from them because their actions on that front cost them the election and tens of thousands of people their lives.
Harm reduction for whom? did it include Palestinians getting bombed with US weapons? any of other victims of US foreign policy? Trump couldn’t operate with impunity as he is if the democrats didn’t set him up for it.
No it fucking isn’t. Organizing is organizing. Be it building dual power, mutual aid networks, unions, affinity groups, whatever. Voting is the bare minimum civic participation. Conflating them is a diversionary tactic designed to make people think they’ve done something groundbreaking by filling in a ballot.
completely backwards. Movements don’t start with voting and scale up to strikes. they start with material organizing and sometimes engage in electoral politics tactically (ideally with an actual workers party)
Funny, did this in the 2024 ‘primaries’ with uncommitted votes; all warning signs were completely ignored. surely if we keep trying the same things will work out eventually.
I’m not apathetic, I’m actually quite involved in irl organizing (actual organizing, not electoral). I’m just not particularly invested in the democratic party.
For many vulnerable people. Its good that you are unaffected by the election results, but please check your privilege.
A bare minimum that mls cannot be bothered to do. As such they have no credibility to doing higher level activity.
Are you aware that there have been elections before that? We should have been organized long before. J Edgar Hoover thanks you for your contributions. You are the leftist he would wish to see. Disorganized and unwilling to take actions.
Right, you cared so much you couldn’t spare an afternoon every two years? Maybe skip the shit posting a few days to get some of the time to do so. Not all of us are so privileged as to not care about the harm reduction at the least.
I’m actually pretty fucking affected by them, I’m a trans woman and plenty fucking familiar with economic precarity. I’ve been having my prescriptions fucked with on and off ever since Trump got in office, my insurance even stopped covering pretty much every formulation of estrogen other than ones used by cis women
You’re lecturing me about privilege because you don’t like how I feel about your preferred party of genocide enablers.
I’ve voted in pretty much every fucking election on and off year in my adult life, plus I’m an anarchist.
It’s rich accusing me of being a fed/useful idiot while identifying voting for the democratic party as the truly useful activity.
Once more, I’ve fucking voted every year for over two decades. I even vote in municipal elections, those happen on odd numbered years.
feel free to continue attacking straw targets though I guess.
Seems you didn’t read my opening statement:
It’s not like you’ve read anything I’ve said. You couldn’t even seem to register that I vote in these fucking elections routinely and still find the democrats disgusting.
I also did read and respond to that, you called me privileged without engaging with anything I said.
And I never said you were wrong to do so. I am saying your bad attitude around voting is undermining our leftist movements by being needlessly divisive.
personally I find sending unlimited weapons to a genocide to be needlessly divisive.
feel free to continue trying to tone police my ‘bad attitude’ (criticizing democrats)
And therefore we should ignore voting even more? The ml position here reads like abstinence; which is effectively to give up.
Talk about a strawman. Like I said earlier. It would be ideal for us to have our own party. It would be great if mls like you would join us in support of it. Until then the progressive wing of US politics lives in the dem party and it would be helpful to our movement to help it grow as much as it can.
And since you care so much about strawmanning; don’t forget I did say voting is only one thing we should do. Not the only thing ;)