Thank you for the hot topic, One day old account.
But are their parents rich?
depends,
in Brazil, public universities are mostly attended by the rich for free
paid ones are usually also mostly attenddd by the rich though on average less rich
the reason? even though there extremely generous inclusion programs and quotas for poor and students that studied in public education system their whole lives the public universities are very competitive and hard to get into and since the basic public school system is utter garbage any student from private schools is at a huge advantage
Well that’s the whole problem because it’s not merit it’s entitlement and cronyism
Meh, it just says new exam was introduces and a lot of students failed. This just means the schools are not good at preparing students for this exam, not that they don’t prepare for practicing medicine. I would say it’s normal that universities will need time to adapt their courses to the requirements of the exams. Maybe students are not well prepared for the format or maybe the just need to put greater focus on different parts of the curriculum. I don’t think this means that graduates are somehow less prepared, just that the new exam is another barrier for them to begin practice which means it will slow down induction of new doctors into the workforce. Hopefully they will adapt fast and this will not have any long term repercussions.
Framed differently, it could mean the new exam is a poor indicator of readiness to practice medicine.
Exactly. Impossible to tell from this article alone.
It could be either way.
In a for profit setting when those who do the work are the very same people/institutions who measure the quality of that work (in this case schools which both teach something and then measure how well that something was taught), it’s not at all uncommon that the measuring methodology gets changed over time to yield better results for the same work rather than the work changing to improve the results in the existing measurement methodology.
This is why independent measuring of results is a thing.
In this case to know for sure we would have to get the opinions of existing medical practicioners who have worked side by side with recent graduates from these and other schools - if they tend to see graduates from these schools as coming in worse prepared than those from other schools, then this outcome we saw is probably due to the kind of situation I described above.
graduate
lack basic knowledge
Why are they graduating in the first place? Who is passing these students? Stop passing students who can’t show they learned anything, maybe? Novel idea, I know.
They… Are? Seems like a lot of people responding aren’t reading the article, so:
- Brazil is huge, and has the largest public healthcare system in the world.
- This is the first time they’ve conducted a national test against medical universities
- They are not punishing students, but the universities, and restricting new enrollment at them
And no, they are not all private institutions.
Seems like a lot of people responding aren’t reading the article, so
You’re insinuating I didn’t read the article. 😛 But you’re right, I didn’t, because the statement I was referring to is right in the title.
How are they “about to graduate” if teachers weren’t passing them when they shouldn’t have, if they lack basic knowledge? You shouldn’t be reaching the end of your medical programme about to graduate if you haven’t passed any courses. 🤷♂️
Hah, yea, they’re in their last year. It doesn’t say how they are going to handle it. This also means there are graduates who would probably fail, too.
It’s mostly private institutions passing people because they just care about the money and nothing else.
Source? The literal subtitle of the article says it’s private and public institutions.
Try reading beyond the subtitle
Middle of the article:
The medicine schools with the worst scores are mostly municipally owned (created and managed by city councils) or …
Sooo…
Cherry picking huh? Municipal are the smallest and least funded public universities here, the major institutions are all state and federal level, to be honest I didn’t even know there were municipal ones. Reminder that I said ‘mostly’ not ONLY private institutions.
“It’s no surprise that federal public universities have received the highest marks; they are universally recognized as the best. But the evaluation of medical programs has also revealed that tuition fees can be inversely proportional to the quality of the education being offered. Medicine schools that scored the lowest (1 or 2 on a scale of 1-5) charge each student between $1,100 and $2,600 a month, according to a detailed analysis by Veja magazine. This is veritable fortune in a country where the minimum wage is $313 a month.”
Not cherry picking, just wasn’t aware that municipalities were smaller schools. Our school system here works different. Now I know.
Corruuuuuption!
Americans, pay attention, because this is where you’re headed in speed run fashion
speed run fashion
It’s no surprise that federal public universities have received the highest marks; they are universally recognized as the best. But the evaluation of medical programs has also revealed that tuition fees can be inversely proportional to the quality of the education being offered. Medicine schools that scored the lowest (1 or 2 on a scale of 1-5) charge each student between $1,100 and $2,600 a month, according to a detailed analysis by Veja magazine. This is veritable fortune in a country where the minimum wage is $313 a month.
How can you charge so much compared to their minimum wage and still be so bad?
fun fact the minimum wage is yearly readjusted and based on the cost of common basic items
how is it so bad? I have no fucking clue, we have chronic critical shortage of medics since as far as I can remember
Ah, the American approach
Ah, the
AmericanCapitalist approachFtfy
Trust fund babies. Just like here.
not at all. this is how much private education costs in brazil. most students go in debt to do it, not unlike usians.
there are some exceptions but most trust fund babies are actually in the much superior public university, because they had the better education to pass the hard exams in the first place.
luckily the system has balances to let in a lot of poorer students easier. not nearly enough space for everyone, though.
this, 100% correct, I am a brazillian
I have somehow managed to get in a prestigeous a public university in one of the best campi they have, (though unfortanely in a course that I hate and didnt want to get) and this is genuinely as someone that comes from a self subsistance farmer family the first time I have seen macbooks and ipads in my life (they are seen as status symbols here)
there are state mandated quotas of slots designated exclusively to students that have studied in public highschools and for black or mixed students, inclusion programs for low income students that provide up to half a minimum wage, housing and free food
it is common to say that public universities here are for the rich because, for the most part they are, even with all the support poorer students get, they are still a minority, you will see expensive cars roaming arround in the campus being driven by people who clearly got the drivers license yesterday and dont know what fuck theybare doing, and rich kids outright paying to get help cheating in tests
Students that are paying a fortune can expect and demand high grades for little work, they’re paying extra for the “deluxe” degree where all the hard stuff is done for them. It’s really common with for-profit universities.
I’ve found in higher education that many programs that act as diploma mills charge a lot because they can. They know the students are just looking for the degree and that the school is probably their only choice.
I’ve studied at a public university in Brazil. Students from private schools were always mocked as being less intelligent and hardworking, starting with the selection process to get in: since everyone wants an education free of cost, the best students are selected for public schools.
But still, I’m pretty sure it’s less of a matter of quality of education, and more of a lack of interest from students combined with a systematic problem of private schools. Hopefully they’re able to require passing this exam to rectify this situation. Currently, that already happens for law schools.
Tax your rich, investigate corruption, close the loopholes.
The global economy is so broken that there’s barely financial incentive to become a doctor anymore. The system only sustained for so long because we outsourced medical training to places like South Africa.
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What did the Quebecois do to you?
Nothing, I’m a Quebecer maudit tabarnak, I can call ourselves the P word if I want. Heck if our esteemed PM could call us a “bande de mangeux de hot dogs”, what’s the problem?
https://campbellstrategies.com/parli/mangeur-de-hot-dogs/
And for the record, if you’re having difficulties parsing paragraphs, this story is about medical students, why would you infer I am talking about the whole province?
Oh you’re from Quebec? My condolences
Shove off.
The quality of doctors has declined to a shocking degree in just a generation.
