Swiss voters on Sunday decisively rejected a call to require women to do national service in the military, civil protection teams or other forms, as all men must do already.
Official results. with counting still ongoing in some areas after a referendum, showed that more than half of Switzerland’s cantons, or states, had rejected the “citizen service initiative” by wide margins. That meant it was defeated, because proposals need a majority of both voters and cantons to pass.
Voters also heavily rejected a separate proposal to impose a new national tax on individual donations or inheritances of more than 50 million francs ($62 million), with the revenues to be used to fight the impact of climate change and help Switzerland meet its ambitions to have net-zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050.
If men have to sign up for the draft then it is only fair that women have to too. It’s unfair that only men have to risk being drafted and losing so much of their life to war.
Personally, I think having a draft is a terrible idea regardless of gender.
They voted down adding women to this already bad idea. Potentially in the future, they remove the draft altogether.
I guess my point is, why would you want them to make the situation worse just so it is equal?
Counterpoint: with a draft, people are less willing to support the government going to war.
Removing the draft is never on the table.
While I understand the pushback against military drafts/service requirements, they also can be a net positive for a culture that applies them equally regardless of gender, class or ethnicity. You are significantly less likely to support war if your children or grandchildren could potentially get dragged into it. Want to the majority of wars? Make it a law that the heirs of the rich must serve in the infantry during wartime.
Oh give me a break, women are getting away worse in so many facets of life. When we have fixed discrimination against women we can talk about them doing mandatory civil service.
Edit: Did not know that on Lemmy we have such an issue with women’s rights.
So? Are we supposed to have a fair, equal society or are we playing these games of measuring each other’s cocks?
Measure whatever you want but maybe first make it slightly more equal for the ones who have been disadvantaged for decades? But no, one party always focuses on the few things man have where they are slightly worse of.
I’m a feminist and I honestly don’t understand this mentality. Mixing genders in all activities is good for our society, period.
Not if said activity is forced upon you. Women can already voluntarily join the military or civil service.
So can men, but in this instance they’re also compelled. The ask here is that if men are compelled to service, women should be too. That’s obviously equal treatment and fair.
Am I in the wrong movie? Women are at a huge disadvantage in life (Gender pay gap, workplace representation, unpaid care and domestic work, education and job positions, healthcare, part-time employment, promotion and career advancement, violence against women, political representation) and we should work to solve that but for some reason we first want to force them to also serve in the military while leaving the current system in place that puts them at a disadvantage? Oh the heavens, men have to serve for a single year…yes that is super important, not all the things they get a huge advantage in life?
You’re right, men should just go die in a war they have no reason to fight and be happy about it.
No they should not? Nobody said that.
Also nobody who is in the army here actually believes they will ever see a war. Most people who serve just hate it and see it as a waste of time that will never amount to anything.
It doesn’t sound like Lemmy has an issue with women’s rights, it sounds like you have an issue with equal rights.
Unfortunately a large majority of people have an issue with women’s rights 🥲
Statistically woman do so much more care work then men, they already served the country well. There is no need to also draft them. It’s only fair. It would also work if more men would take care of kids, the elderly or do other chores without any pay and skip any career for that.
Being drafted is different than doing chores or working in care roles. Everyone capable should be responsible for the defense of those who are not in times of war regardless of sex.
There are also plenty of care roles, and chores, in military service.
Yes more Men should take on the life outside of work, but that has nothing to do with 50% of a countries population being forced to give up and risk their lives while the other isn’t even though they are capable of, and excel in, combat and support roles.
That’s great but we are talking about the draft, not domestic life. Women can take on roles in the armed services that mean some men won’t be forced into doing. Combat roles aren’t the entire thing, plenty of support roles that need filling out. Being drafted won’t be fun but if we want true equality then women have to help shoulder the burden when/if a draft happens. It’s a privilege to not have to worry about being drafted, giving that privilege up won’t be fun but it is fair.
This comment is pure comedy gold.
ITT: people judging the vote and the voters by the magnanimous title alone.
The initiatives were worded and implemented so poorly, that it wouldn’t surprise me if the initiants wanted to lose both these votes.
- The inheritance tax would have caused mass nationalisations and it had pegged the tax proceeds to go towards climate goals instead of let’s say the federal pension fund deficit (AHV-Loch). It would be incorrect to state that the voters don’t support an inheritance tax or climate goals based on this vote.
- The “service citoyen” proposal would have made some kind of civil or military service mandatory for all, but would have essentially reduced the military to a volunteer force, which would be socially unacceptable. The Swiss have a historically repeatedly confirmed will to keep a citizen’s militia as the country’s only security force.
There is no “AHV-Loch”, we’re doing well in that respect. I’m against the second initiative too, but your rationalization is wild.
What is not well enough reprensented in this post is that the Service Citoyen was not only about makimg women do a mandatory service. It was to transform the outdated and regressive mandatory service for men into a more general service to the collective that treated security not as a entirely militaristic issue but as a wholistic one.
Now parliament will interpret this as a mandate to cull the existing useful civil service and force every men (and potentially women too) into the military.
There shouldn’t be mandatory military service at all
With this parliament the military will stay and grow and become more and more unavoidable. Service citoyen would have countered that…
Tell that to Ukraine.
That’s an option I would accept too.
Nazi collaborators continuing to be backwards idiots. What a surprise.
The term Nazi is slung around so loosely now I have become desensitized. Did the guy once post a meme about defunding some government program or did he try to burn down a Jewish synagogue, both will be labeled Nazi in 2025.
The Swiss literally collaborated with the literal Nazis.
I have become desensitized
Weird that hearing about fascism has left you incapable of identifying fascists. I never see your type have this problem with Muslims, Feminists, or Tankies.
Alright well I don’t deal in cosplay, sorry.
:-/
What’s this tabloid supposed to mean?
you are a massive ignorant idiot. there is so much more to this story than just that.
The takes on here are wild as a Swiss dude.
Hint: Mandatory service is a problem.
Mandatory service is not a problem. As long as we live in a world with countries like russia mandatory service does more good than harm.
Isreal uses its mandatory service to get teenagers to support genocide.
Mandatory service causes two main issues (for me): Bad, undisciplined armies and authoritization of the population.
It is. Get with the times it’s the 21st century. Modern men are equipped with better social tools and technologies to be able to tackle any problems that come their way without resorting to savagery that is violence. There’s diplomacy, economic sanctions as well as international agreements to get Russia to stop what they are doing with a strongly worded letter. The sword may seems sharp, but nay the pen is mightier than the sword. Yet, it is men’s fragile ego that prevents them from searching alternative solutions other than wanton violence. Oh Vritra, if we could eliminate all the men if the world, the world would a lot more peaceful, as the remaining people eat their crumpets and sips on their tea.
Hey! You lost this:
*Hand over a “/s”
Yeah tell me how that would’ve worked/ is working for Ukraine.
If Russians invade your country they’ll have guns, not pens, and you’ll need a plan to deal with them when they don’t feel like negotiating.
As an American, I have no room at all to judge this decision. But
proposals need a majority of both voters and cantons to pass.
That sounds amazing. Let’s do that, please.
I mean, straight popular vote would probably be better. But this could really do what the Electoral College stans say that it was made to do, without doing what it actually does.
That sounds amazing.
It sounds arbitrary and heavily weighted to favor the smaller cantons. Same problem we have with the US Senate and the filibuster. Representatives for a meager 30M voters can obstruct policy championed by the other 300M
Anything even slightly better than the idiocy we have seems amazing to me, apparently
I thought everyone had to serve. Sad.
