So I’m going to make this point just for educational purposes but Hinduism is quite sophisticated and you can be atheist / agnostic while still being Hindu ie. believing in concepts like karma, samsara, moksha, and advaita.
In fact India’s first prime minister who was a key figure in India’s independence movement and also key in establishing India as a secular nation with parliamentary democracy was a Hindu atheist. His name was Jawaharlal Nehru.
Now I know JD Vance doesnt know this when he describes her as agnostic and the Hindu rebutting him is a reasonable defense of her religious beliefs in total. But for those with the spiritual sophistication to understand it, it should be understood that Hinduism and Atheism/Agnosticism are not mutually exclusive.
Therefore, Samkhya maintained not only that the various cosmological, ontological and teleological arguments could not prove god, but that god as normally understood—an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator who is free from suffering—cannot exist.
In some ways people had got used to the idea that India was spiritual and religion-oriented. That gave a leg up to the religious interpretation of India, despite the fact that Sanskrit had a larger atheistic literature than what exists in any other classical language. Madhava Acharya, the remarkable 14th century philosopher, wrote this rather great book called Sarvadarshansamgraha, which discussed all the religious schools of thought within the Indian structure. The first chapter is Atheism – a very strong presentation of the argument in favor of atheism and materialism
Aha. Good. This is atheism. But if you read the wiki article you’ll notice the first paragraph, that “Hindu atheism” is used to describe atheists, agnostics and non-theists, as well as spiritual belief that rejects the existence of the main god (bot not other shiet).
This is what OP calls atheism
Hinduism is quite sophisticated and you can be atheist / agnostic while still being Hindu ie. believing in concepts like karma, samsara, moksha, and advaita.
Reincarnation belief is not atheism. Karma & Samsara take the place of the deity and judgment of your life deeds according to divine moral compass, it’s just that they are not anthropomorphic.
I’m having a hard time understanding what’s so sophisticated about it.
Isn’t it the same with a lot of other religions?
I’ve met a lot of people who say they are culturally catholic and participate in the celebrations, etc but are atheists. The same happens with Jewish people.
That often means they take part in rituals without having any other beliefs. This is different from that since, in a Western framework, spirituality is often defined by a devotion to a specific God. It can be tough to understand spirituality in the absence of God though that conceptualization has existed for millennia in other cultures.
I don’t know about Usha, but I’ve known a couple of atheist-Hindu-Christians that viewed the pantheon like a list of aspirational metaphorical figures, and they just added Jesus to the pantheon.
I’m butchering a 2 millennia story, but it illustrates how christianity fares in hinduism, and it even has some evidentiary support, so…
When the apostle Thomas was sent to India, he wound up in Cochin and began establishing a ministry or fellowship there.
He was frustrated by the lack of convincing required, or resistance to his ideas, without singular devotion.
The creator instantiating one more avatar is no stretch as Hinduism is pretty sophisticated in narratives, so Issa/Jesus just got added to the list that includes Krishna, and to this day you can buy hindu iconography with Jesus teaching compassion.
(Dude did succeed in forming a strictly Christian community though, and so arguably the oldest Christian sect is there.)
Indeed, most xtianity sub-sects tend to hold to being exclusionary of anything else. So, while agnosticism and Hinduism might be accommodating, xtianity tends not to be. I’m pretty sure the Kirk kind of xtianity would be.
You’re right that Christianity is exclusionary at the institutional level. Its a part of why the church has generally lost favor in society over time (in addition to rationalism etc.)
But individual Christians can be accommodating so in a universe where JD Vance isn’t trying to turn the US into a white nationalist “utopia” it could work.
One of the core tenets of Christianity is that the only path to salvation is through Christ. That means non Christians are going to hell. That must be hard to accept (that your spouse cannot be heaven bound) but I think many Christians individually try not to think about this too much as they meet good non Christian people while living in pluralistic societies.
There are theological frameworks within Catholicism that seek to be more inclusive (implicit faith, anonymous Christians) but they are not widely accepted within Christianity (or even within Catholicism for that matter).
Catholicism disagrees with that though! In Catholicism christ is necessary for salvation, and accepting him is the only revealed path to salvation but there is reasonable hope for the salvation of non-believers. That’s why pope Francis was comfortable saying that he hopes hell is empty. The hope that through good works and changes in purgatory all people can be saved.
You’re absolutely right! I was surprised to learn two in three Catholics believe non Christians can go to heaven (see the link to 2021 Pew data in my other reply).
Yes. I’ve run across many tolerant xtians (many in my own family) during my life and you are not wrong.
Now I know that some xtians would definitely say other xtians are not “real” xtians unless they believe certain things, but there are definitely xtian denominations that don’t think the only way to salvation is through Jesus, so it’s not just down to individuals.
So I’m going to make this point just for educational purposes but Hinduism is quite sophisticated and you can be atheist / agnostic while still being Hindu ie. believing in concepts like karma, samsara, moksha, and advaita.
In fact India’s first prime minister who was a key figure in India’s independence movement and also key in establishing India as a secular nation with parliamentary democracy was a Hindu atheist. His name was Jawaharlal Nehru.
Now I know JD Vance doesnt know this when he describes her as agnostic and the Hindu rebutting him is a reasonable defense of her religious beliefs in total. But for those with the spiritual sophistication to understand it, it should be understood that Hinduism and Atheism/Agnosticism are not mutually exclusive.
If you believe in Karma you are, per definition, not an atheist.
deleted by creator
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_atheism
This is a Hindi term to describe a pick-your-beliefs Hindu. It’s a proper term though, like a city name, so maybe that’s why you’re confused.
Did you read the article you linked?
Sounds pretty atheist to me.
Aha. Good. This is atheism. But if you read the wiki article you’ll notice the first paragraph, that “Hindu atheism” is used to describe atheists, agnostics and non-theists, as well as spiritual belief that rejects the existence of the main god (bot not other shiet).
This is what OP calls atheism
Reincarnation belief is not atheism. Karma & Samsara take the place of the deity and judgment of your life deeds according to divine moral compass, it’s just that they are not anthropomorphic.
I’m having a hard time understanding what’s so sophisticated about it. Isn’t it the same with a lot of other religions? I’ve met a lot of people who say they are culturally catholic and participate in the celebrations, etc but are atheists. The same happens with Jewish people.
That often means they take part in rituals without having any other beliefs. This is different from that since, in a Western framework, spirituality is often defined by a devotion to a specific God. It can be tough to understand spirituality in the absence of God though that conceptualization has existed for millennia in other cultures.
Lol how does Christianity and Hindu/atheist combo fair?
I don’t know about Usha, but I’ve known a couple of atheist-Hindu-Christians that viewed the pantheon like a list of aspirational metaphorical figures, and they just added Jesus to the pantheon.
I’m butchering a 2 millennia story, but it illustrates how christianity fares in hinduism, and it even has some evidentiary support, so…
When the apostle Thomas was sent to India, he wound up in Cochin and began establishing a ministry or fellowship there.
He was frustrated by the lack of convincing required, or resistance to his ideas, without singular devotion.
The creator instantiating one more avatar is no stretch as Hinduism is pretty sophisticated in narratives, so Issa/Jesus just got added to the list that includes Krishna, and to this day you can buy hindu iconography with Jesus teaching compassion.
(Dude did succeed in forming a strictly Christian community though, and so arguably the oldest Christian sect is there.)
Isn’t the oldest Christian sect in Palestine?
You’d think. Maybe. We don’t know for sure. Thomas was a contemporary so same generation.
Indeed, most xtianity sub-sects tend to hold to being exclusionary of anything else. So, while agnosticism and Hinduism might be accommodating, xtianity tends not to be. I’m pretty sure the Kirk kind of xtianity would be.
Name checks out.
You’re right that Christianity is exclusionary at the institutional level. Its a part of why the church has generally lost favor in society over time (in addition to rationalism etc.)
But individual Christians can be accommodating so in a universe where JD Vance isn’t trying to turn the US into a white nationalist “utopia” it could work.
One of the core tenets of Christianity is that the only path to salvation is through Christ. That means non Christians are going to hell. That must be hard to accept (that your spouse cannot be heaven bound) but I think many Christians individually try not to think about this too much as they meet good non Christian people while living in pluralistic societies.
There are theological frameworks within Catholicism that seek to be more inclusive (implicit faith, anonymous Christians) but they are not widely accepted within Christianity (or even within Catholicism for that matter).
Catholicism disagrees with that though! In Catholicism christ is necessary for salvation, and accepting him is the only revealed path to salvation but there is reasonable hope for the salvation of non-believers. That’s why pope Francis was comfortable saying that he hopes hell is empty. The hope that through good works and changes in purgatory all people can be saved.
You’re absolutely right! I was surprised to learn two in three Catholics believe non Christians can go to heaven (see the link to 2021 Pew data in my other reply).
Yes. I’ve run across many tolerant xtians (many in my own family) during my life and you are not wrong.
Now I know that some xtians would definitely say other xtians are not “real” xtians unless they believe certain things, but there are definitely xtian denominations that don’t think the only way to salvation is through Jesus, so it’s not just down to individuals.