Palestinians can learn a lot from the ANC’s struggle for freedom in South Africa. They were also violently oppressed, they also had their land and property taken. They also became puppets of foreign governments with the goal of destabilizing the region
What changed, was that they realized they could never win an armed conflict and targeting civilians did nothing but intensify the oppression and undermine international sympathy for their cause.
They switched to a campaign of unarmed resistance, worked internationally to break the regime’s support base and partnered with whites who also wanted the oppression to stop.
Israel will never stop this conflict, so long as they can use fear against their own citizens to remain in power. Palestinians need normal Israelis on their side.
So long as the pictures show a child vs a tank, their movement is working. But when it shows armed palestinian men attacking Israeli civilians, they are losing.
Palestinians, like the ANC, need to keep violence out of their movement, especially the use of religion to justify that violence.
This comment show lack of understanding of how Israeli response to peaceful protests.
It is wild to me when you expect anything from someone who is willing to shoot and kill children on live tv. By the way I am not talking about Gaza after October 7.
You can check out all the other peaceful protests where soldiers were shooting their knees, or respond with violence.
“You shouldnt scream when you get raped, instead call the police after and hopefully they will arrest him if they found enough evidence” OP probably…
The key thing is you can never ever take the offensive and attack israeli civilians.
I mean, I do agree with the fact that civillians should never be attacked, but your “never use violence” part doesn’t hold up. The police and military are valid target to attack.
I mean:
American Revolution
French Revolution
Xinhai Revolution
War of Resistance against Japanese Imperialism in Asia
Battle of Normandy, Operation Overlord, and war against nazi germany
etc…
These are all “violence”, but that’s how they won.
The South African government supporting armed resistance has very little to do with a moral position. It has more to do with them seeking support from Iran and Russia for their corruption.
I know it’s not fair. It is brutal and inhumane.
Israel is committing a genocide Gaza to a degree we have not seen since the genocide in Dafhur.
My point is one of practicality. What does a violent attack on civilians achieve for the palestinian cause?
Say a man is in the woods with his family and they come across a wolf. The man attacks the wolf unprovoked and the wolf fights back, but the man is too strong. His only hope is that the family would tell the man to stop, or that a park ranger would notice it and intervene.
Would the wolf attacking the mans family achieve anything in its favour? Or would that erode his support with the family and the park ranger?
No, you want to kill or disabled your rapist and escape if you’re being raped. A person who rapes is saying that they feel entitled to do anything with your body that they want to - including murder, more rape, imprisonment, forced pregnancy. Legally you are allowed to defend yourself. Rip out their throats with your hands. Kick out their kneecaps. Do the world a favor and yourself a favor. Self defense isn’t violence.
They switched to a campaign of unarmed resistance, worked internationally to break the regime’s support base and partnered with whites who also wanted the oppression to stop.
So BDS?
They switched to a campaign of unarmed resistance, worked internationally to break the regime’s support base and partnered with whites who also wanted the oppression to stop.
Nope! I mean they did these things, as are Palestinians, but the armed resistance campaign only stopped as part of good faith negotiations with the Apartheid government. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMkhonto_weSizwe. The armed resistance and peaceful resistance campaigns worked together and supplemented each other to eventually bring an end to Apartheid in South Africa, exactly as we’re seeing in Palestine right now.
Palestinians need normal Israelis on their side.
80% of Jewish Israelis don’t feel anything when shown pictures of starving Palestinians, so “normal” Israelis are clearly in the minority here, which is why peace and kindness alone have not worked and will never work. If you want more numbers that will make you lose your faith in humanity, I recommend this. Note: The link doesn’t contain the 80% thing, but I can provide a source for that if you want. Point being: The things you’re calling for are happening, but for a variety of reasons they’re not enough, so they need to be backed up with armed struggle.
Normal israelis used to be more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. But regular missile attacks and air raid sirens desensitised them in recent times.
Israelis nearly got rid of Netanyahu, but attacks like Oct 7 galvanised the public behind him.
I lived the resistance of the ANC in the late 80s. Umkhonto weSiswe was a lot less prominent by then since the change in strategy. The remnants of that movement nearly derailed the entire process.
What I am advocating for is that in all similar situations around the world, armed attacks on the civilians of the other side have NEVER resulted in success. Not when there is a power disparity like this. They need to be removed from the strategy.
Normal israelis used to be more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.
For all the good that did Palestinians. The fact of the matter is that no serious attempt at a two state solution (if we even consider Oslo that) has come from Israel since Rabin, and we all know how that ended. Israeli “support” for Palestinian liberation is too fickle and too noncommittal to be counted on as a basis for anything, and peace talks between the PA and Israel would remain as farcical as ever even as support for a two-state solution hit its peak (about 70%). As MLK describes in A Letter from a Birmingham Jail, “later” and “if you behave” have always been synonyms for “never” in liberation politics. To repeat: There was only one man willing and capable to make significant “concessions” to end the conflict, and Israelis killed him and elected Hitler for it. By the time “normal Israelis” can get their heads out of their asses and stop their ethnic cleansing project, Palestine won’t exist for them to benefit form this oh so gracious change of heart.
But regular missile attacks and air raid sirens desensitised them in recent times.
Israeli support for a two-state solution peaked after the notoriously violent Second Intifada, so I’m not convinced the amount of violence exercised by Palestinians is playing a significant role here. What’s more likely is that the late 90s and early 2000s were an anomaly and now Israel is experiencing a pendulum swing in the opposite direction, helped along by the rise of fascism in Western-aligned democracies.
Israelis nearly got rid of Netanyahu, but attacks like Oct 7 galvanised the public behind him.
They were going to get rid of him because he’s corrupt, not because support for his agenda had soured. Case in point: They refuse to get rid of him, even though an overwhelming majority wants him to resign, because they’re prioritizing the genocide.
I lived the resistance of the ANC in the late 80s. Umkhonto weSiswe was a lot less prominent by then since the change in strategy.
The late 80s was after most prerequisite progress had already happened and reform was a serious prospect; this is like saying “see? The Good Friday Agreement proves violence was unnecessary in North Irish liberation!” Like, of course violence will be less necessary with serious talks underway; the problem is forcing those talks to happen in the first place. By the way, you said in your original comment that the ANC had stopped its armed struggle, so why are you contradicting yourself?
What I am advocating for is that in all similar situations around the world, armed attacks on the civilians of the other side have NEVER resulted in success.
I’m not advocating attacking civilians specifically, but… North Ireland? What do you think the IRA was doing?
The image you’re pushing of exclusively nonviolent resistance to settler colonialism is simply not backed by reality, as shown by your own example.
You think it’s an execuse that some genocides are not acceptable because the people who denounce them have super brains, but Israeli’s genocide is acceptable because Israelis cannot denounce aparthied and genocide because their brains cannot accept the truth, and so we should let them keep at it? ?!?!
Why is it that 99.9% of Israeli scholars and proffessors are anti Zionism? All their educated are anti Zionist despite how many rockets their country regualrly intercepts from Hamas.
Israelis are indoctrinated with Zionism and Jewish superamcy literally seeing Palestinians as non-humans. They refuse to open their eyes to the truth because they’re too happy dancing next to besieged open-air prison, and enjoy previliges no one on this earth does.
You don’t think unchecked power corrupts??
Well, literally a settler can come up to you, shoot you dead and nothing will happen to him. The court will grant him your mom’s house which your family lived in before their country was even created, then come the next day protected by soliders to kick your family out. This is not an exaggeration, this happens in 2025 in the West Bank where there is no Hamas and the PA work under the IOF to oppress you.
Palestinian Mandelas have rotten in prisons unheard of, and peacful marchings and Palestinain Ghandis were met with bullets and death for decades. South Africa’s aparthied only ended AFTER the world sanctioned them to nonexistance while in Israel’s case, not only there has never been a boycott, the world strongest economies enable them with $billions year after year and the Palestinain cause was dead.
On October-8-2023, the Western democracies of the world including France, Italy, UK, Spain and even the Arab dictatorships were siding with the occupying genocidal aparthied sucking Netynyahu’s dick and it’s on Youtube until this day.
And before Oct-7 2023, it was dead and the Arab dictatorships were normalizing relationships with a genocidal ethnostate under the US approval left and right. You cannot ask people to accept living as slaves when you only have one earthly existance. You either die slowly on your knees in silent, or die on your feet resisting, and they chose the harder bloodier latter because the first has not worked.
Your comments make complete sense in the context that both sides have been radicalized against each other for the benefit of a very small group of leaders on both sides. They are the real enemies
There will never be peace in the region until the radicalisation cycles can be broken. That’s where their power comes from.
and your comment makes as much sense as the picture in this post… because one side wants a supremacy genocidal aparthied while the other side just want to live.
They both just want to live. It’s the small groups of oligarchs that have convinced them they want other things. Either greater israel, or a Palestine with no Jews.
There is no way either party can get that.
Don’t forget there is a large number of non-jewish people living as Israeli citizens. Almost 30% of the population.
It’s part of the reason I would argue that a one state solution is the better option. A combined nation with one political and legal structure. That way the Current Jewish majority is diluted down to less than 50%. The only way to kill apartheid is to integrate the societies more closely. But that’s unlikely to happen as long as Israel is supported by the US and the local middle eastern nations don’t support the Palestinians though economic support and sanctions.
Palestine without Jews?!?!? There were Jews in Palestine living in peace alongside muslims and christians long before Israel was even created!
Stop the false info that never happened. When has there ever a palestinian doctrine or accord, or government or leader who claimed to want “A pAlIsTiNe wItH nO jEwS” ? What year was that? 1937 British mandate? 1948 Nakba? 1970 David camp? 1993 Oslo accords? In each one of these they ethnically cleansed and occupied more from Palestine and turned Israel into the aparthied it is.
Why are you repeating Zionist bs that is did not happen? Give me your sources, and let’s read them out and discuss them.
Meanwhile, go read the Yinon and Herzl plan, and Ben Gurion letters, which are considered the fathers of zionism.
Do these names sound Semetic to you btw if you even know what that word means?
Just google this shit and read what Zionism was built on from the start and it is WHAT HAS ACTUALLY BEEN DONE. We see the genocidal aparthied on video! It’s not theoritical!
Again respectfully I’m ignorant about so much history about so many parts of this world. I need to watch and read just like you need to at least watch these two parts and tell me if you still think Palestinian Mandelas and Palestinian Ghandis were the solution. Also tell me when and where the fuck is that Palestinain doctrine that started killing Jews and demanded Palestine without Jews.
tell me if you still think Palestinian Mandelas and Palestinian Ghandis were the solution.
Not them, but to be fair Mandela literally founded these guys. Nelson Mandela is heavily whitewashed by liberal media, but just like the original Mandela Palestine’s Mandela is probably in Gaza right now shooting Zionist scum.
I think you misunderstand my intentions. I am also looking the project of zionism to be eradicated. It’s as evil as the Nazi movement, or the Islamic eradication of other cultures, or the Christian Inquisitions and crusades.
Regardless of the history and what was said/promised/agreed, the only plan that will work is one that focuses on the current population on the ground.
A secular, irreligious, democracy that erases the apartheid boundaries is the only solution that does not perpetuate the conflict.
The two state solution is inherently unfair, because as you say, each time it’s on the table, the palestinians get less and less. In a democratic one state solution, they get an equal portion relative to their population (including the diaspora)
Apart from political power, You will also need a marshal plan type reconstruction effort to uplift, the war ravaged population and protect them from extremism and external exploitation by foreign governments. Fortunately, there is enough wealth in the Israeli economy to pay for a multi-generational reconstruction plan.
Whether those problems are better or worse on the whole from the ones prior to decolonisation I’m sure will be argued back and forth below by people who just read the Wikipedia article.
Palestinians can learn a lot from the ANC’s struggle for freedom in South Africa. They were also violently oppressed, they also had their land and property taken. They also became puppets of foreign governments with the goal of destabilizing the region
What changed, was that they realized they could never win an armed conflict and targeting civilians did nothing but intensify the oppression and undermine international sympathy for their cause.
They switched to a campaign of unarmed resistance, worked internationally to break the regime’s support base and partnered with whites who also wanted the oppression to stop.
Israel will never stop this conflict, so long as they can use fear against their own citizens to remain in power. Palestinians need normal Israelis on their side.
So long as the pictures show a child vs a tank, their movement is working. But when it shows armed palestinian men attacking Israeli civilians, they are losing.
Palestinians, like the ANC, need to keep violence out of their movement, especially the use of religion to justify that violence.
This comment show lack of understanding of how Israeli response to peaceful protests.
It is wild to me when you expect anything from someone who is willing to shoot and kill children on live tv. By the way I am not talking about Gaza after October 7.
You can check out all the other peaceful protests where soldiers were shooting their knees, or respond with violence.
“You shouldnt scream when you get raped, instead call the police after and hopefully they will arrest him if they found enough evidence” OP probably…
You misunderstand unarmed resistance. You want to shout when raped, as loud as you can.
The key thing is you can never ever take the offensive and attack israeli civilians.
It is brutally unfair, but you can never cede the moral high ground, not even for a moment.
I mean, I do agree with the fact that civillians should never be attacked, but your “never use violence” part doesn’t hold up. The police and military are valid target to attack.
I mean:
These are all “violence”, but that’s how they won.
Military targets are valid. Not arguing against that.
Regarding the other conflicts. They had much closer power parity, so they could compete with the opposition.
No you are absolutely wrong. The right to resist is recognized human rights.
Even South Africa recognized the Palestinians rights for arms resistance.
Israel goes around kidnapping people with military force and because media call it arrest it is okay. When Hamas do the same, you think it is wrong.
The Palestinians have giving away their weapons before and it didn’t get them anywhere.
your comments are objectively wrong.
The South African government supporting armed resistance has very little to do with a moral position. It has more to do with them seeking support from Iran and Russia for their corruption.
I know it’s not fair. It is brutal and inhumane.
Israel is committing a genocide Gaza to a degree we have not seen since the genocide in Dafhur.
My point is one of practicality. What does a violent attack on civilians achieve for the palestinian cause?
Say a man is in the woods with his family and they come across a wolf. The man attacks the wolf unprovoked and the wolf fights back, but the man is too strong. His only hope is that the family would tell the man to stop, or that a park ranger would notice it and intervene.
Would the wolf attacking the mans family achieve anything in its favour? Or would that erode his support with the family and the park ranger?
No, you want to kill or disabled your rapist and escape if you’re being raped. A person who rapes is saying that they feel entitled to do anything with your body that they want to - including murder, more rape, imprisonment, forced pregnancy. Legally you are allowed to defend yourself. Rip out their throats with your hands. Kick out their kneecaps. Do the world a favor and yourself a favor. Self defense isn’t violence.
Channel these women:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francine_Hughes
https://www.wweek.com/news/2016/08/17/a-hit-man-came-to-kill-susan-kuhnhausen-she-survived-he-didnt/
Yeah you’re know what’s better than shouting. Attacking the rapist
This, right here. Lethal or disabling first strikes work as the best defense when the defender is smaller and weaker.
when they attack soldiers Israeli cries about terrorists killing their young babies.
look at all those “civilians” with military titles that were killed (and bombed by Israel) in Oct7th.
If OnLy ThEy UsEd PeAcEfUl PrOteSt…
That is the event that radicalised me
So BDS?
Nope! I mean they did these things, as are Palestinians, but the armed resistance campaign only stopped as part of good faith negotiations with the Apartheid government. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMkhonto_weSizwe. The armed resistance and peaceful resistance campaigns worked together and supplemented each other to eventually bring an end to Apartheid in South Africa, exactly as we’re seeing in Palestine right now.
80% of Jewish Israelis don’t feel anything when shown pictures of starving Palestinians, so “normal” Israelis are clearly in the minority here, which is why peace and kindness alone have not worked and will never work. If you want more numbers that will make you lose your faith in humanity, I recommend this. Note: The link doesn’t contain the 80% thing, but I can provide a source for that if you want. Point being: The things you’re calling for are happening, but for a variety of reasons they’re not enough, so they need to be backed up with armed struggle.
Normal israelis used to be more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. But regular missile attacks and air raid sirens desensitised them in recent times.
Israelis nearly got rid of Netanyahu, but attacks like Oct 7 galvanised the public behind him.
I lived the resistance of the ANC in the late 80s. Umkhonto weSiswe was a lot less prominent by then since the change in strategy. The remnants of that movement nearly derailed the entire process.
What I am advocating for is that in all similar situations around the world, armed attacks on the civilians of the other side have NEVER resulted in success. Not when there is a power disparity like this. They need to be removed from the strategy.
For all the good that did Palestinians. The fact of the matter is that no serious attempt at a two state solution (if we even consider Oslo that) has come from Israel since Rabin, and we all know how that ended. Israeli “support” for Palestinian liberation is too fickle and too noncommittal to be counted on as a basis for anything, and peace talks between the PA and Israel would remain as farcical as ever even as support for a two-state solution hit its peak (about 70%). As MLK describes in A Letter from a Birmingham Jail, “later” and “if you behave” have always been synonyms for “never” in liberation politics. To repeat: There was only one man willing and capable to make significant “concessions” to end the conflict, and Israelis killed him and elected Hitler for it. By the time “normal Israelis” can get their heads out of their asses and stop their ethnic cleansing project, Palestine won’t exist for them to benefit form this oh so gracious change of heart.
Israeli support for a two-state solution peaked after the notoriously violent Second Intifada, so I’m not convinced the amount of violence exercised by Palestinians is playing a significant role here. What’s more likely is that the late 90s and early 2000s were an anomaly and now Israel is experiencing a pendulum swing in the opposite direction, helped along by the rise of fascism in Western-aligned democracies.
They were going to get rid of him because he’s corrupt, not because support for his agenda had soured. Case in point: They refuse to get rid of him, even though an overwhelming majority wants him to resign, because they’re prioritizing the genocide.
The late 80s was after most prerequisite progress had already happened and reform was a serious prospect; this is like saying “see? The Good Friday Agreement proves violence was unnecessary in North Irish liberation!” Like, of course violence will be less necessary with serious talks underway; the problem is forcing those talks to happen in the first place. By the way, you said in your original comment that the ANC had stopped its armed struggle, so why are you contradicting yourself?
I’m not advocating attacking civilians specifically, but… North Ireland? What do you think the IRA was doing?
The image you’re pushing of exclusively nonviolent resistance to settler colonialism is simply not backed by reality, as shown by your own example.
You think it’s an execuse that some genocides are not acceptable because the people who denounce them have super brains, but Israeli’s genocide is acceptable because Israelis cannot denounce aparthied and genocide because their brains cannot accept the truth, and so we should let them keep at it? ?!?!
Why is it that 99.9% of Israeli scholars and proffessors are anti Zionism? All their educated are anti Zionist despite how many rockets their country regualrly intercepts from Hamas.
Israelis are indoctrinated with Zionism and Jewish superamcy literally seeing Palestinians as non-humans. They refuse to open their eyes to the truth because they’re too happy dancing next to besieged open-air prison, and enjoy previliges no one on this earth does.
You don’t think unchecked power corrupts?? Well, literally a settler can come up to you, shoot you dead and nothing will happen to him. The court will grant him your mom’s house which your family lived in before their country was even created, then come the next day protected by soliders to kick your family out. This is not an exaggeration, this happens in 2025 in the West Bank where there is no Hamas and the PA work under the IOF to oppress you.
Palestinian Mandelas have rotten in prisons unheard of, and peacful marchings and Palestinain Ghandis were met with bullets and death for decades. South Africa’s aparthied only ended AFTER the world sanctioned them to nonexistance while in Israel’s case, not only there has never been a boycott, the world strongest economies enable them with $billions year after year and the Palestinain cause was dead.
On October-8-2023, the Western democracies of the world including France, Italy, UK, Spain and even the Arab dictatorships were siding with the occupying genocidal aparthied sucking Netynyahu’s dick and it’s on Youtube until this day.
And before Oct-7 2023, it was dead and the Arab dictatorships were normalizing relationships with a genocidal ethnostate under the US approval left and right. You cannot ask people to accept living as slaves when you only have one earthly existance. You either die slowly on your knees in silent, or die on your feet resisting, and they chose the harder bloodier latter because the first has not worked.
“Palestinian Nelson Mandela”
https://youtu.be/NJYNtwgesHU
Your comments make complete sense in the context that both sides have been radicalized against each other for the benefit of a very small group of leaders on both sides. They are the real enemies
There will never be peace in the region until the radicalisation cycles can be broken. That’s where their power comes from.
and your comment makes as much sense as the picture in this post… because one side wants a supremacy genocidal aparthied while the other side just want to live.
They both just want to live. It’s the small groups of oligarchs that have convinced them they want other things. Either greater israel, or a Palestine with no Jews.
There is no way either party can get that.
Don’t forget there is a large number of non-jewish people living as Israeli citizens. Almost 30% of the population.
It’s part of the reason I would argue that a one state solution is the better option. A combined nation with one political and legal structure. That way the Current Jewish majority is diluted down to less than 50%. The only way to kill apartheid is to integrate the societies more closely. But that’s unlikely to happen as long as Israel is supported by the US and the local middle eastern nations don’t support the Palestinians though economic support and sanctions.
Palestine without Jews?!?!? There were Jews in Palestine living in peace alongside muslims and christians long before Israel was even created!
Stop the false info that never happened. When has there ever a palestinian doctrine or accord, or government or leader who claimed to want “A pAlIsTiNe wItH nO jEwS” ? What year was that? 1937 British mandate? 1948 Nakba? 1970 David camp? 1993 Oslo accords? In each one of these they ethnically cleansed and occupied more from Palestine and turned Israel into the aparthied it is.
Why are you repeating Zionist bs that is did not happen? Give me your sources, and let’s read them out and discuss them.
Meanwhile, go read the Yinon and Herzl plan, and Ben Gurion letters, which are considered the fathers of zionism. Do these names sound Semetic to you btw if you even know what that word means?
Just google this shit and read what Zionism was built on from the start and it is WHAT HAS ACTUALLY BEEN DONE. We see the genocidal aparthied on video! It’s not theoritical!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yinon_Plan
https://www.freesuriyah.eu/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/HerzlJFischmannJandYinon-TheGreaterIsrael.pdf
Just watch these by overzealots please because the history I read and know 10 years ago seems like news to you. we are not on the same page:
Part 1:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=nXujfBBfvXU
Part 2:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D1gSrckT5G4
Again respectfully I’m ignorant about so much history about so many parts of this world. I need to watch and read just like you need to at least watch these two parts and tell me if you still think Palestinian Mandelas and Palestinian Ghandis were the solution. Also tell me when and where the fuck is that Palestinain doctrine that started killing Jews and demanded Palestine without Jews.
Not them, but to be fair Mandela literally founded these guys. Nelson Mandela is heavily whitewashed by liberal media, but just like the original Mandela Palestine’s Mandela is probably in Gaza right now shooting Zionist scum.
I think you misunderstand my intentions. I am also looking the project of zionism to be eradicated. It’s as evil as the Nazi movement, or the Islamic eradication of other cultures, or the Christian Inquisitions and crusades.
Regardless of the history and what was said/promised/agreed, the only plan that will work is one that focuses on the current population on the ground.
A secular, irreligious, democracy that erases the apartheid boundaries is the only solution that does not perpetuate the conflict.
The two state solution is inherently unfair, because as you say, each time it’s on the table, the palestinians get less and less. In a democratic one state solution, they get an equal portion relative to their population (including the diaspora)
Apart from political power, You will also need a marshal plan type reconstruction effort to uplift, the war ravaged population and protect them from extremism and external exploitation by foreign governments. Fortunately, there is enough wealth in the Israeli economy to pay for a multi-generational reconstruction plan.
Palestinians can learn a lot from Rhodesia, there they killed the colonizers and took their home back.
And where did it leave them today?
In rhodesia. What kind of a stupid question in that
In Zimbabwe, which has a ton of problems.
Whether those problems are better or worse on the whole from the ones prior to decolonisation I’m sure will be argued back and forth below by people who just read the Wikipedia article.
Lmao you’re saying decolonisation was a bad thing?
It makes sense from the guy living in one of the couple of british coloniea who didn’t decolonise yet
Please highlight where I said that