It is RATHER FUCKING LATE. Sure, let’s put together anti-poaching laws for the White Rhino after it’s already extinct in the wild! Now, let’s find other ways to do precisely nothing of any meaningful value while being able to claim moral superiority and that “at least we eventually did something”. Now that the complete obliteration of any meaningful civilisation in the vast majority of occupied Palestine has been completed, and after god-knows-how-many thousands have died of starvation or just being shot like rabid dogs while trying to take the mangled bodies of their children to a hospital, or daring to try to pick up food. Recognising a state which is in exile is precisely as useful to actual Palestinian people as just watching and shrugging your shoulders. It’s just an attempt at performative retroactive unfucking.
In case my point was unclear, this is no longer “them doing the right thing”. What, precisely, do you believe is the benefit of this action to the Palestinian people? This is a great way of drumming up public support without actually having to do anything. Is there actually any commitment here to action? Is there actually any real cost to doing this? Have these countries ceased funding Israel? Have they stepped up aid? Are they even acknowledging that it is a genocide?
Perhaps I am wrong, but I don’t think I am. This is nothing but a publicity stunt, and until it’s backed up by real action, I refuse to perceive this as “doing the right thing”. This is nothing but a bunch of bullies who’ve been kicking some kid, and now that one of the bullies has clearly done permanent damage, they’re all saying “hey bro, it’s just a joke, bro, are you okay, bro?” Not even stopping the other two bullies who are still actively curb-stomping the kid. No. I don’t see this as “the right thing”.
You are making an argument from ignorance.
First of all, this is something Palestine has wanted for many decades. So finally doing it is absolutely something the Palestinians want.
What, precisely, do you believe is the benefit of this action to the Palestinian people
It marks that the occupation of Palestine by Israel is illegal, making new settlements are illegal.
In short it basically defines almost everything Israel does as illegal and unacceptable by every nation that recognize a Palestinian state.
This is a clear message to Israel that they do NOT have the support of those countries, and their actions are regarded as illegal under international law.
Most likely there will be follow ups to this, that legally depended on this recognition to begin with.
It is also i signal to other countries, that helping Israel oppressing and committing war crimes in Palestine is not acceptable under international law.
As someone who is under the godforsaken Nazi regime of MAGA, I have rapidly come to terms with the fact that “illegal” things are only illegal if there is a force willing to enforce the law being broken. Is there such a force? I have heard nothing of it. Please suggest who, exactly, you think is going to actually enforce sanction and punishments for this “illegality”. If these declarations do, indeed, have the force of international law behind them, and represent a commitment by these countries to enforce these wondrous and miraculous laws they’ve been actively ignoring up until this point, then I shall immediately cede the point.
As far as “argument from ignorance” is concerned, I would appreciate some elaboration. Saying “Talk is cheap” is not an argument from ignorance.
You are actually doing it again. The argument from ignorance is that just because you don’t see (are ignorant about) the advantage of this, you claim there is no advantage, when in fact there are clear advantages.
With regard to enforcement that is usually a mix of individual countries and the international community, possibly decided in FN, much like we’ve seen with Iran.
You are living in a lawless country, and USA is not an ally in this regard anymore, but many other countries are actually trying to maintain and uphold international law.
Trump might even get in on it it too, if he thinks it helps his image.
Personally I consider USA a lost cause now, and I have little interest in their policies that mostly consist of shooting themselves in the foot, and let China become the de facto international leader, as USA is stepping down and even sabotaging their former allies on their way down.
I understand why you are pessimistic, I would be too if I lived in USA.
I am not saying “there can be no advantage”. At every turn, I was asking you to explain the advantage which, let’s be clear, you have been attempting to do in good faith. I just want to understand more about whether this international law is actually enforceable in any meaningful time frame. Saying “I don’t see how this helps them in any meaningful way. Do you have some explanation that shows that it does?” is not an argument from ignorance, it is literally asking to be proven wrong. I am desperately trying to see literally anything other than a calculated move of realpolitik with the sole aim of getting their citizens to stop speaking out against their complicity in genocide.
What complaining? It’s a political cartoon. It’s not saying they shouldn’t have done something late. It’s just a reminder that they didn’t do anything earlier.
You’re so right, because the “positive reinforcement” of “let’s make up for doing nothing about the Holocaust by letting Zionists do a bit of colonialist mass murder as a treat and recognising their state” has gone just so well these last eighty years. </s>
If recognising a government in exile is the best you can do in the face of an active genocide that YOU HELPED FUND, then NO, better to do nothing and JUST. STOP. DOING. THE. GENOCIDE.
It is RATHER FUCKING LATE. Sure, let’s put together anti-poaching laws for the White Rhino after it’s already extinct in the wild! Now, let’s find other ways to do precisely nothing of any meaningful value while being able to claim moral superiority and that “at least we eventually did something”. Now that the complete obliteration of any meaningful civilisation in the vast majority of occupied Palestine has been completed, and after god-knows-how-many thousands have died of starvation or just being shot like rabid dogs while trying to take the mangled bodies of their children to a hospital, or daring to try to pick up food. Recognising a state which is in exile is precisely as useful to actual Palestinian people as just watching and shrugging your shoulders. It’s just an attempt at performative retroactive unfucking.
We all know it’s fucking late, but it makes little sense to complain when someone is finally doing the right thing.
Better late than never.
In case my point was unclear, this is no longer “them doing the right thing”. What, precisely, do you believe is the benefit of this action to the Palestinian people? This is a great way of drumming up public support without actually having to do anything. Is there actually any commitment here to action? Is there actually any real cost to doing this? Have these countries ceased funding Israel? Have they stepped up aid? Are they even acknowledging that it is a genocide?
Perhaps I am wrong, but I don’t think I am. This is nothing but a publicity stunt, and until it’s backed up by real action, I refuse to perceive this as “doing the right thing”. This is nothing but a bunch of bullies who’ve been kicking some kid, and now that one of the bullies has clearly done permanent damage, they’re all saying “hey bro, it’s just a joke, bro, are you okay, bro?” Not even stopping the other two bullies who are still actively curb-stomping the kid. No. I don’t see this as “the right thing”.
You are making an argument from ignorance.
First of all, this is something Palestine has wanted for many decades. So finally doing it is absolutely something the Palestinians want.
It marks that the occupation of Palestine by Israel is illegal, making new settlements are illegal.
In short it basically defines almost everything Israel does as illegal and unacceptable by every nation that recognize a Palestinian state.
This is a clear message to Israel that they do NOT have the support of those countries, and their actions are regarded as illegal under international law.
Most likely there will be follow ups to this, that legally depended on this recognition to begin with.
It is also i signal to other countries, that helping Israel oppressing and committing war crimes in Palestine is not acceptable under international law.
Don’t let perfect stand in the way of progress.
As someone who is under the godforsaken Nazi regime of MAGA, I have rapidly come to terms with the fact that “illegal” things are only illegal if there is a force willing to enforce the law being broken. Is there such a force? I have heard nothing of it. Please suggest who, exactly, you think is going to actually enforce sanction and punishments for this “illegality”. If these declarations do, indeed, have the force of international law behind them, and represent a commitment by these countries to enforce these wondrous and miraculous laws they’ve been actively ignoring up until this point, then I shall immediately cede the point.
As far as “argument from ignorance” is concerned, I would appreciate some elaboration. Saying “Talk is cheap” is not an argument from ignorance.
You are actually doing it again. The argument from ignorance is that just because you don’t see (are ignorant about) the advantage of this, you claim there is no advantage, when in fact there are clear advantages.
With regard to enforcement that is usually a mix of individual countries and the international community, possibly decided in FN, much like we’ve seen with Iran.
You are living in a lawless country, and USA is not an ally in this regard anymore, but many other countries are actually trying to maintain and uphold international law.
Trump might even get in on it it too, if he thinks it helps his image.
Personally I consider USA a lost cause now, and I have little interest in their policies that mostly consist of shooting themselves in the foot, and let China become the de facto international leader, as USA is stepping down and even sabotaging their former allies on their way down.
I understand why you are pessimistic, I would be too if I lived in USA.
I am not saying “there can be no advantage”. At every turn, I was asking you to explain the advantage which, let’s be clear, you have been attempting to do in good faith. I just want to understand more about whether this international law is actually enforceable in any meaningful time frame. Saying “I don’t see how this helps them in any meaningful way. Do you have some explanation that shows that it does?” is not an argument from ignorance, it is literally asking to be proven wrong. I am desperately trying to see literally anything other than a calculated move of realpolitik with the sole aim of getting their citizens to stop speaking out against their complicity in genocide.
What complaining? It’s a political cartoon. It’s not saying they shouldn’t have done something late. It’s just a reminder that they didn’t do anything earlier.
Thaaaaat’s the negative reinforcement that’ll ensure they never change their stance next time.
That is the goal, right?
You’re so right, because the “positive reinforcement” of “let’s make up for doing nothing about the Holocaust by letting Zionists do a bit of colonialist mass murder as a treat and recognising their state” has gone just so well these last eighty years. </s>
If recognising a government in exile is the best you can do in the face of an active genocide that YOU HELPED FUND, then NO, better to do nothing and JUST. STOP. DOING. THE. GENOCIDE.