Just today apple showed how stupid is this policy as they revoked the publisher certificate for a torrent app, proving that the end goal is not locking malware but stuff that they don’t like
This is just a way to capture negative feedback in a way that leaves you feeling like you did something while impacting none of their business which they can then ignore and throw away with no issues. Make noise on social media, not feedback forms. Make them hurt.
Some poignant questions for these new platform requirements:
- How do you anticipate this being used against journalists and advocacy groups?
- What research and statistical quantification will be done to evaluate the amount of harm these restrictions can inflict?
- What precautions or safeguards will users have against malicious state actors or capitulating corporations?
- How can developers protect themselves from liable damages due to service interruptions caused by third party verification?
- Do you foresee legal restrictions in rollout due to national security concerns from differing nation states?
What a disappointing week. I was looking to replace my five year old iPhone with an android phone and now I’m just stumped. Pixel 10 looked pretty good but then this sudden verification requirement news hit. Both platform are now equally crap. The hell with both of these shitty companies. Maybe I’ll go full retro and get a dumb phone instead.
Get a pixel secondhand and put an android fork on it. Its what I will likely do because I am sick of Google in my life and dont want to pay through the nose for a glossy shit that doesnt even have a file manager from apple.
iOS/iPad OS has had a file manager for years? It’s not great, and heavily restricted, but it for sure exists.
It’s not great, and heavily restricted, but it for sure exists
That’s kind of the point though. Apple’s file manager portrays a “flat” filesystem, where all of your data is laid out neatly on the table - so to speak - and the actual locations of those directories within the system are buried inside vague and protected locations “for security”. Android file managers embrace a more traditional Unix-like filesystem hierarchy.
In what way is it restricted? I dont do much but being able to explore to find my files is necessary.
I am really hoping that PostmarketOS will become more viable.
I’ve been trying to get rid of all American service provider (dropped netflix, duolingo); smartphones are more difficult though because they need to work.
I did my part!
What has happened with mobile platforms has proven that the fact that we ended up with PC platforms that allow us the freedom to largely do whatever we want with them was more an outlier than the norm.
Apple and Google have gone out of their way at every step with their new platforms over the last 20 years to make sure that process does not repeat itself. Even the stuff that seems more open like Android technically supporting arbitrary app installs from anywhere and the Linux container in ChromeOS still allows the platform holder to step in and stop you from doing something with those tools should they desire using mechanisms that the OS depends on to be useful.
This is silly. Google doesn’t give a single fuck. This decision will make money for key players and that’s the end of the conversation.
It’s very likely that no amount of negative feedback will change anything. Why not waste some of their time anyway? Write to them, call them, spread the word. This is the only thing we can do. Even if it goes through regardless - at the very least we can make it as unpleasant as possible.
No humans are involved in reviewing these. They go into the memory hole and that’s that.
Assigned to: Some Indiandude (xWF)
Doesnt matter.
Give feedback and pray it somehow does something!I dunno, I’m sure there’s a part of them that doesn’t want to scare off all the free labor they get from the community developers. They are probably legitimately trying to gauge how much of an impact on that this will have. That doesn’t mean they are going to stop or change anything, but they probably genuinely care enough to know.
I dunno, I’m sure there’s a part of them that doesn’t want to scare off all the free labor they get from the community developers.
Google’s thinking has gone short term “next quarter must go up.” They would absolutely trash their Android dev community for a quick buck, 100%.
You do it for posterity reasons
Straight into the garbage.
Public pushback on stuff like this does work on occasion. It even worked on Apple when they proposed upload filters for CSAM.
Google’s intent in the short term probably is just about malware, but in the long term it gives them, and governments which can pressure them the ability to ban any app from nearly all Android devices. Once deployed, there’s a near 100% chance of such a mechanism being used for evil.
The malware argument falls like a house of cards when you just dig a bit nd see that Play Store is full of indiscutible malware like flashlight “apps”.
I don’t buy the malware arguement. Most major social apps function like malware (tracking location and anything they can). In the 90s, any app that did that (say to your laptop) would be treated as spyware.
Also the true malware is currently signed and it still reaches millions of people, most of the time downloaded straight from store.
No doubt many “legitimate” apps, including some of Google’s own are spyware. This claims to be about the sort of malware that steals your bank account login.
I’d even speculate that most of the people involved are working in good faith; they think they’re the good guys and they can be trusted with that kind of power. Nobody should have that kind of power though because it always leads to corruption.
I would love to see an interview with the team. Because you’re probally right.
It’s only spyware if Google can’t monetize it. Which is ironic if you think about it.
I would argue that was the definition even in the early 2000s. then it became a business model for famous companies.
True, even in the early 2000s, an application tracking your laptop locations would be treated as extremely dangerous spyware and the relevant could would be treated as a borderline criminal actor.
Google aren’t opposed to evil any more though, they removed their motto of “Don’t Be Evil”.
Apple is a bit more receptive to bad PR, but Google has a history of kinda ignoring developer feedback, like with the JPEG XL thing as a narrow example.
This is an especially technical matter to; it’s no threat to them.
I thought their intent was to (attempt to) reduce piracy
Come on, they don’t care. I will use a custom mod for as long as possible and when this stops working I will switch to two phones setup: de-googled daily driver and second phone for work/car apps. And if I will have to choose between stock Android and iPhone for the second phone I will go with an iPhone.
Sounds like the thing that will finally get me onto another platform. Sideloading is the only way around most of these companys’ draconian restrictions.
I will transition off Android if this gets deployed, this is unacceptable.
What will you switch to?
Some android fork
I did it and I told them exactly why and what I use and why and hopefully they will take heed. It’s not even some freakishly avoid-y reason or anything. I’m not extremist because I know that if I’m going to use a lot of this stuff I have to make compromises because it’s not magically going to get better overnight, but also we have to stand up for user freedom so we have some degree of ability to actually use our devices as we wish and install software that we want on our own computer.
Were you able to sign up and give feedback without verifying your identity first?
Here is the direct link to the form
Apple requires some developer credentials and notarization for sideloading apps, to prevent known malware. What is the problem with this?
Edit: everyone this is an honest question.
People use Android to not have such restrictions.
Something like F-Droid (which published its own builds from source) would likely not be possible with such a model.
It’s certainly one of the main reasons I moved.
First, we don’t have this in Android and we’re better off.
It’s another flavour of gatekeeping.
Second, why do we want to copy apple?
“North Korea does [X], what’s the problem with [USA/UK/EU] doing [X]?”
Do you think Google won’t revoke the signature for apps like revanced or newpipe or send a c&d to the now doxxed devs?
Main reason apple did that is to limit piracy, nsfw apps and track how many installs so they can still bill the developer for that
