It’s there for good reason. Credit can be used for good or ill. Just remember, anything can and will be gamified. We humans love patterns and puzzles too much.
Who would be likely set something like this up without the desire to use it for social control? The government? China’s system. Capitalists? Ours. It exists to incentivize you being in perpetual debt that can be leveraged over you by those who own everything. It’s a system that ensures indentured servitude; a system for the wealthy to project power over you. What fucking entity would have selfish motivation to do anything more?
Collateral and, historically, age, race, sex, and ethnicity. They’d also look at how well you were dressed because 100% of the time you went to the bank in-person to get a loan. Also, your bank wouldn’t be far from where you lived and the local population wasn’t so large that they couldn’t just “ask around” the local social network to see if this man before them was upstanding enough to warrant giving them money.
Also note that people didn’t need to borrow money as much as they do today. You wanted a new home appliance like an oven or refrigerator? You saved for quite some time to buy it.
There weren’t as many things to spend your money on either!
I’m a bit confused by your response. Are you suggesting going back to the old ways (as your description of those old ways encapsulates) or are you pointing out the shortcomings of the old ways (of which there are many)?
I’m just telling it like it is. The old ways were terrible! However, being local and requiring proper collateral instead of just giving n people money en mass—knowing that the percentage that default will be outweighed by the percentage that pay the loan back (and ripping people off by making them pay the interest up front)—was probably better for the economy.
Not everyone should be allowed to amass debt the way we currently allow it. Furthermore, if people couldn’t get loans for school so easily (in fact, guaranteed!) then college tuition would be but a fraction of what it is today.
Local meaning what does local have to do with it unless you’re allowing that bank to make a subjective decision about lending to you because they know you or the area? That’s how we got people of color being denied loans for houses in certain areas of town via “Redlining”. If we allowed this we might also have discrimination based on being LGBTQ or being an unmarried mother.
and requiring proper collateral instead of just giving n people money en mass
So if you need to get a car loan, and you don’t own any assets to put forth for collateral you just don’t get a car?
Furthermore, if people couldn’t get loans for school so easily (in fact, guaranteed!) then college tuition would be but a fraction of what it is today.
Furthermore, if people couldn’t get loans for school so easily (in fact, guaranteed!) then college tuition would be but a fraction of what it is today.
And college would only be available to the rich that already have money, or the middle class with assets (like a house) to borrow against. The poor, without money or assets, would be shut out entirely.
I’m not an economist, but I’m not aware of any economic systems that work without a lending component.
Without lending that means you’ve got one group of people with stuff that don’t need it, and another group of people with need for stuff but without stuff. Without lending there’s no way for the people with needs to get stuff, and the stuff is wasted sitting without being used.
Money is credit. It’s a promise that someone else will pay their labor or capital or goods in exchange.
I would like a world where the things people NEED housing, food, medical care, are provided and the things people want, they can save up money (credit) and purchase by selling what they can, labor, skills, assets.
Yeah pretty much. It’s just, in a capitalist system (without some kind of overarching ideology shaming people into not doing it), there is no lending without profiting. Nobody is going to lend their money out of the goodness of their heart in this system.
Credit reporting is an evil practise. It needs to end.
It’s there for good reason. Credit can be used for good or ill. Just remember, anything can and will be gamified. We humans love patterns and puzzles too much.
Credit scores are barely a 40 year old concept
There is far more corporate and institutional fraud rather than individuals causing problems
Who would be likely set something like this up without the desire to use it for social control? The government? China’s system. Capitalists? Ours. It exists to incentivize you being in perpetual debt that can be leveraged over you by those who own everything. It’s a system that ensures indentured servitude; a system for the wealthy to project power over you. What fucking entity would have selfish motivation to do anything more?
What should lender use instead to determine you are capable of paying back money you’re asking to borrow from them?
Collateral and, historically, age, race, sex, and ethnicity. They’d also look at how well you were dressed because 100% of the time you went to the bank in-person to get a loan. Also, your bank wouldn’t be far from where you lived and the local population wasn’t so large that they couldn’t just “ask around” the local social network to see if this man before them was upstanding enough to warrant giving them money.
Also note that people didn’t need to borrow money as much as they do today. You wanted a new home appliance like an oven or refrigerator? You saved for quite some time to buy it.
There weren’t as many things to spend your money on either!
I’m a bit confused by your response. Are you suggesting going back to the old ways (as your description of those old ways encapsulates) or are you pointing out the shortcomings of the old ways (of which there are many)?
I’m just telling it like it is. The old ways were terrible! However, being local and requiring proper collateral instead of just giving n people money en mass—knowing that the percentage that default will be outweighed by the percentage that pay the loan back (and ripping people off by making them pay the interest up front)—was probably better for the economy.
Not everyone should be allowed to amass debt the way we currently allow it. Furthermore, if people couldn’t get loans for school so easily (in fact, guaranteed!) then college tuition would be but a fraction of what it is today.
Local meaning what does local have to do with it unless you’re allowing that bank to make a subjective decision about lending to you because they know you or the area? That’s how we got people of color being denied loans for houses in certain areas of town via “Redlining”. If we allowed this we might also have discrimination based on being LGBTQ or being an unmarried mother.
So if you need to get a car loan, and you don’t own any assets to put forth for collateral you just don’t get a car?
And college would only be available to the rich that already have money, or the middle class with assets (like a house) to borrow against. The poor, without money or assets, would be shut out entirely.
How about we don’t build an economy on borrowing?
I’m not an economist, but I’m not aware of any economic systems that work without a lending component.
Without lending that means you’ve got one group of people with stuff that don’t need it, and another group of people with need for stuff but without stuff. Without lending there’s no way for the people with needs to get stuff, and the stuff is wasted sitting without being used.
Thats the world you want to live in?
Money is credit. It’s a promise that someone else will pay their labor or capital or goods in exchange.
I would like a world where the things people NEED housing, food, medical care, are provided and the things people want, they can save up money (credit) and purchase by selling what they can, labor, skills, assets.
I agree with you, but thats a wholesale change in government and society far removed from credit scores.
Well usury is harem in Islam, so you can do it without the insane profiteering.
So your problem isn’t lending, its just large profits on lending?
Yeah pretty much. It’s just, in a capitalist system (without some kind of overarching ideology shaming people into not doing it), there is no lending without profiting. Nobody is going to lend their money out of the goodness of their heart in this system.
Though mutual aid could probably solve this.