• perestroika@lemm.ee
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      11 days ago

      Depends.

      If an overwhelming crowd can come together fast - arrest can be blocked and persons de-arrested. But it has to be overwhelming, so that no cop would think of aiming a gun.

      Throughout the history of resisting repression - this arrangement is hard to spontaneously produce.

      As a minimum, people would have to organize with the clear goal of interrupting ICE raids. They’d likely establish a means of communcation (most likely a phone app backed up by mesh networking) and dedicate resources to offering each other legal assistance later. Possibly, everyone who goes to jail for the hypothetical anti-ICE movement should be celebrated like a rock star (with their permission) and their families should be helped through hardship, to encourage people to undertake risky actions.

      The other option - working underground - would be exhausting either ICE or a local police force by persistent sabotage against them. Neutralizing the ICE would have the aim of them organizing less raids, neutralizing police might have the aim of them not backing ICE raids. While more straightforward to accomplish, this approach would bring about high risk (e.g. accusations of terrorism) to people carrying out sabotage. To avoid this, sabotage would have to be carefully considered and low-key. Perhaps, for example, it would aim to upset the agency’s ability to process data - to know whom it actually wants to deport.

      Of course, with local police, one should consider the potential outcomes of successfully neutralizing police: both their negative and positive functions would be neutralized, and people might start complaining about crime.

      A curious tactical perspective becomes evident when thinking about this: police resources could be diverted in peaceful ways, with false reports.

      When I think of how one might decrease police responsiveness to an ICE backup request, I can’t avoid thinking of nice movie scenarios: e.g. while some people are busy obstructing an ICE raid, some other reliably anonymous people divert police resources by calling 911 and reporting various violent situations elsewhere. Others create a traffic jam, effectively isolating the street involved from motor vehicle traffic. Backup will have to arrive on foot, after they’re done chasing the hostage-taking bank robbers who did not exist. :)

          • zib@lemmy.world
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            12 days ago

            And doing nothing when someone is violently assailing you seems like it would carry consequences of its own. I’m not advocating that we meet violence with murderous retribution, but when diplomacy fails and someone intends to cause you harm no matter what you do, defending yourself is the only reasonable course of action.

  • Weirdmusic@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    Look there’s more than enough handguns in the US of A to arm each and every person who opposes ICE agents kidnapping innocent people illegally. This is not by accident. The second amendment was crafted with this very scenario in mind. It’s time.

    Time to pick up the very arms the Constitution guarantees you have the right to bear to fight the very people your Constitution armed you to fight.

    • Ydna@lemmy.world
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      11 days ago

      Always have an escape route ready. Do your thing then get the hell out of there.

    • thisisnotgoingwell@programming.dev
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      11 days ago

      While this sounds nice police largely have no fear of consequence because qualified immunity and even threatening to do harm against a cop carries big consequences. The truth is that lawmakers need to step up and make it clear what they’re doing is illegal, that way refusing an unlawful command or protecting yourself can be easily defended in court. Shooting a cop is only going to add fuel to the fire.

      • grue@lemmy.world
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        11 days ago

        If you’re targeted for kidnapping/rendition, your choice is to either die in an El Salvadoran prison or to die in a hail of bullets with the hope of at least taking a few Nazi thugs with you. Due process is not an option. That’s what’s happening now. It’s not a hypothetical.

  • flyemu@lemmy.world
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    11 days ago

    This is exactly why people don’t trust the system. No warrant shown, no explanation given, a terrified child cuffed and dragged away for reacting like any human being would. Local police claim they don’t assist ICE, but when it counts, they show up to protect federal agents instead of their own community. This wasn’t law enforcement, it was a disappearance in broad daylight, and everyone there knew it.