They used the Congo river as a border before they even knew how long the river was. And ignoring that the river basin is a central geographic feature for many tribes, not a European style border separating countries. It would be like cutting Egypt in half at the Nile river, or cutting Brazil in half at the Amazon. But the Europeans knew so little about the interior of Africa at the time, but they knew where rivers had outlets to the ocean, so they made that the border.
It’s crazy how that one decision is still such an important detail today. They’re still fighting in the 21st century over these 19th century lines that were drawn by people who hadn’t explored the interior of Africa.
But also, South America has a lot of borders in rivers that cut intermingled populations. The difference is that we were the ones that drew them (or asked some uninvolved 3rd party to draw them).
Even in Europe, rivers frequently cut through populations (e.g. the rhine was decidedly not the border between French and German people), 19th and 20th century states in Europe were just better at forcing their populations into cohesion. Possibly because most of these states didn’t just suddenly spring into existence in the 19th century, countries like France, Germany etc. had over a thousand years of history as more-or-less united polities.
A big river like the Rhine is usable as a border because it is absolutely a natural border easily defended for an army. Both armies come from their respective capitals and don’t really care that the towns on both sides are friends and have deep cultural and economic ties. They only care how easily they can dunk on the soldiers or barbarians as they are waddling through the water, or funneled on a bridge.
The frontier is where you can guarantee protection with your army. If you can’t cross the river fast enough to stop raids on the town on the other side, then it’s not guaranteed protection, and it’s not part of your country.
Alsace/Elsass kept changing hands between Germany and France back and forth for hundreds of years. The Rhine is a good defensible position, which might be why the area that kept changing hands wasn’t extended to Baden, Württemberg etc., but evidently not good enough to prevent the existence of German populations west of the Rhine.
They used the Congo river as a border before they even knew how long the river was. And ignoring that the river basin is a central geographic feature for many tribes, not a European style border separating countries. It would be like cutting Egypt in half at the Nile river, or cutting Brazil in half at the Amazon. But the Europeans knew so little about the interior of Africa at the time, but they knew where rivers had outlets to the ocean, so they made that the border.
It’s crazy how that one decision is still such an important detail today. They’re still fighting in the 21st century over these 19th century lines that were drawn by people who hadn’t explored the interior of Africa.
Yeah, that’s a really bad example.
But also, South America has a lot of borders in rivers that cut intermingled populations. The difference is that we were the ones that drew them (or asked some uninvolved 3rd party to draw them).
It’s ‘we’ because you are the decendants of the colonizers no?
Eh… You could bother to learn one thing or another before making assumptions.
Even in Europe, rivers frequently cut through populations (e.g. the rhine was decidedly not the border between French and German people), 19th and 20th century states in Europe were just better at forcing their populations into cohesion. Possibly because most of these states didn’t just suddenly spring into existence in the 19th century, countries like France, Germany etc. had over a thousand years of history as more-or-less united polities.
A big river like the Rhine is usable as a border because it is absolutely a natural border easily defended for an army. Both armies come from their respective capitals and don’t really care that the towns on both sides are friends and have deep cultural and economic ties. They only care how easily they can dunk on the soldiers or barbarians as they are waddling through the water, or funneled on a bridge.
The frontier is where you can guarantee protection with your army. If you can’t cross the river fast enough to stop raids on the town on the other side, then it’s not guaranteed protection, and it’s not part of your country.
Alsace/Elsass kept changing hands between Germany and France back and forth for hundreds of years. The Rhine is a good defensible position, which might be why the area that kept changing hands wasn’t extended to Baden, Württemberg etc., but evidently not good enough to prevent the existence of German populations west of the Rhine.