It’s not worse. It’s carbon neutral (as long as the energy source is renewable like the sun). Any carbon it takes in will be released exactly back to where it was. It’s a much much better option than digging up oil.
On top of that, there are currently no likely possibilities of replacing gasoline for things like planes. So replacing their gas with carbon neutral gas will improve the situation by 100%.
No they do exist! But most scientists agree that we are unlikely to ever see commercial airliners using it, nor will freight liners use it. We would have to see ENORMOUS scientific improvements and many many many things that seem incredibly far fetched invented to get to that point.
You overstate your case, several firms are already at various stages. Wright Electric is working on a >500km range passenger craft for easyJet right now. That won’t be able to fill every role, but a worthwhile number of them to be sure.
If you could link that it would be great. As far as I understand it, a commercial passenger plane (which holds several hundred people) is no where close to being possible. If you are talking about small planes that hold maximum ten-15 people then sure.
There are lots of claims going around, but the physics just isn’t there. Battery storage density isn’t high enough currently (and doesn’t look to be close) to support large planes. It’s the same problem as with 18 wheelers. The larger the vehicle, the battery size increases superlinearly, not linearly. Because adding in battery storage increases the weight required to carry the vehicle, thus increasing the battery storage needs, thus … and so on. With liquid fuel, the weight is variable based on the passengers, and the weight drops as the flight continues, thus increasing fuel efficiency the more weight is lost.
I get that. Do you have a number in mind for Wh/kg needed for commercial air feasibility? Geely Auto is apparently producing solid state 350+ Wh/kg batteries for cars this year. That might be almost enough, especially given the longer lifespan usually claimed of solid state batteries. I’m not an expert on any of this stuff, but it seems at least worth waiting and seeing.
There is no such thing as “carbon neutral”. Nor is there a problem with carbon. You’re talking about carbon dioxide which is as close to carbon as table salt is to chlorine.
The efficiency doesn’t matter (to a point of manufacturing solar cells, or wind turbines, or whatever your equipment is for your renewable energy source). If all of the gasoline is generated from the air using renewable energy, it could take 100x the energy and still be completely carbon neutral. Carbon neutrality is based on the amount of excess carbon added to the air. If no carbon is added then by definition it’s carbon neutral.
Porsche already has a factory in Chile that is doing this exact same thing at a much larger scale.
The cost of that thingy outweights the benefits. It misses out economy of scale that you get in big plants. Even with “free” electricity, It’s probably making both more expensive gas and is worse for the climate when you throw it away after it breaks down for the twelfth time in a year and you wonder why it cost so much initially.
No I’m asking you to explain how it’s not carbon neutral. I do not give one shit about the cost, I do not give one shit about how much the gas it produces costs (for reference the Porsche plant is at over $40 a LITER). You have stated it’s not carbon neutral. Explain how. If the machine does what it says then it is carbon neutral.
I have an electric car, I do not care about this machine. But I do care when people claim something and have zero evidence to back it up.
Dude, it’s su fucking non carbon neutral you must be trolling.
First of all it’s a prototype, all the building cost, materials etc all have a carbon cost. The free electricity too has a carbon cost. All the money you want to theow at it, guess what? It has a carbon footprint.
So, once again you are incapable of explaining how it’s not carbon neutral, though you think you are. Carbon neutrality has nothing to do with development costs and construction costs are almost always dwarfed by running costs (which I literally mentioned if you would bother reading).
You’re just angry it’s not a miracle machine.
I’m not the one getting angry. You are making a bunch of bullshit claims and then getting mad that people don’t believe your lies.
Well, it shouldn’t be carbon neutral… It should used to get carbon out of the atmosphere and into a less damaging substance.
Carbon capture does not replace getting rid of our dependency on burning fossil fuels.
We wouldn’t get back the same amount that we are burning anyway. So this approach is worse, because dumb people think it would save us, without us changing the way we produce energy.
It is worse, because it is a distraction from actually doing something.
Until we get rid of the necessity for gasoline, this is better than extracting new fossil fuels and might be better than biofuels produced far away.
Also, I don’t think any form of carbon capture from atmosphere is realistic at scale to reduce CO2. You need atv least as much energy as we are burning just to keep up, and that’s assuming 100% efficiency which is impossible. Focusing on reducing new CO2 emitted seems more effective
It’s not worse. It’s carbon neutral (as long as the energy source is renewable like the sun). Any carbon it takes in will be released exactly back to where it was. It’s a much much better option than digging up oil.
On top of that, there are currently no likely possibilities of replacing gasoline for things like planes. So replacing their gas with carbon neutral gas will improve the situation by 100%.
Battery electric aeroplanes aren’t as far off as you might think, but you’re technically correct that they don’t currently exist.
No they do exist! But most scientists agree that we are unlikely to ever see commercial airliners using it, nor will freight liners use it. We would have to see ENORMOUS scientific improvements and many many many things that seem incredibly far fetched invented to get to that point.
You overstate your case, several firms are already at various stages. Wright Electric is working on a >500km range passenger craft for easyJet right now. That won’t be able to fill every role, but a worthwhile number of them to be sure.
If you could link that it would be great. As far as I understand it, a commercial passenger plane (which holds several hundred people) is no where close to being possible. If you are talking about small planes that hold maximum ten-15 people then sure.
I just read it from the Wikipedia page. Their site doesn’t have a lot of info other than a white paper
There are lots of claims going around, but the physics just isn’t there. Battery storage density isn’t high enough currently (and doesn’t look to be close) to support large planes. It’s the same problem as with 18 wheelers. The larger the vehicle, the battery size increases superlinearly, not linearly. Because adding in battery storage increases the weight required to carry the vehicle, thus increasing the battery storage needs, thus … and so on. With liquid fuel, the weight is variable based on the passengers, and the weight drops as the flight continues, thus increasing fuel efficiency the more weight is lost.
I get that. Do you have a number in mind for Wh/kg needed for commercial air feasibility? Geely Auto is apparently producing solid state 350+ Wh/kg batteries for cars this year. That might be almost enough, especially given the longer lifespan usually claimed of solid state batteries. I’m not an expert on any of this stuff, but it seems at least worth waiting and seeing.
There is no such thing as “carbon neutral”. Nor is there a problem with carbon. You’re talking about carbon dioxide which is as close to carbon as table salt is to chlorine.
You can vote me down as much as you want. You still have no clue of chemistry - or anything else you’re babbling about. Morons.
How about you go argue with the scientists calling it carbon neutral. My wife literally works in the field. It’s called carbon neutral.
Yes it is. And nowhere is stayed how efficient it is (only their “target” which is worth less than toilet paper because it isn’t true).
The efficiency doesn’t matter (to a point of manufacturing solar cells, or wind turbines, or whatever your equipment is for your renewable energy source). If all of the gasoline is generated from the air using renewable energy, it could take 100x the energy and still be completely carbon neutral. Carbon neutrality is based on the amount of excess carbon added to the air. If no carbon is added then by definition it’s carbon neutral.
Porsche already has a factory in Chile that is doing this exact same thing at a much larger scale.
This is just wrong, except if you live in some theory reality. It’s like saying if a car can go a hundred miles in a hundred years it’ll get there.
There’s a reason why people don’t build small dinky toys like this and efficiency is why, anong other things like that pesky “cost”.
Please do explain how it’s wrong. Go on, I’ll wait.
The cost of that thingy outweights the benefits. It misses out economy of scale that you get in big plants. Even with “free” electricity, It’s probably making both more expensive gas and is worse for the climate when you throw it away after it breaks down for the twelfth time in a year and you wonder why it cost so much initially.
But you think it’s kind of neat I guess.
No I’m asking you to explain how it’s not carbon neutral. I do not give one shit about the cost, I do not give one shit about how much the gas it produces costs (for reference the Porsche plant is at over $40 a LITER). You have stated it’s not carbon neutral. Explain how. If the machine does what it says then it is carbon neutral.
I have an electric car, I do not care about this machine. But I do care when people claim something and have zero evidence to back it up.
Dude, it’s su fucking non carbon neutral you must be trolling.
First of all it’s a prototype, all the building cost, materials etc all have a carbon cost. The free electricity too has a carbon cost. All the money you want to theow at it, guess what? It has a carbon footprint.
You’re just angry it’s not a miracle machine.
So, once again you are incapable of explaining how it’s not carbon neutral, though you think you are. Carbon neutrality has nothing to do with development costs and construction costs are almost always dwarfed by running costs (which I literally mentioned if you would bother reading).
I’m not the one getting angry. You are making a bunch of bullshit claims and then getting mad that people don’t believe your lies.
Well, it shouldn’t be carbon neutral… It should used to get carbon out of the atmosphere and into a less damaging substance.
Carbon capture does not replace getting rid of our dependency on burning fossil fuels.
We wouldn’t get back the same amount that we are burning anyway. So this approach is worse, because dumb people think it would save us, without us changing the way we produce energy.
It is worse, because it is a distraction from actually doing something.
Until we get rid of the necessity for gasoline, this is better than extracting new fossil fuels and might be better than biofuels produced far away.
Also, I don’t think any form of carbon capture from atmosphere is realistic at scale to reduce CO2. You need atv least as much energy as we are burning just to keep up, and that’s assuming 100% efficiency which is impossible. Focusing on reducing new CO2 emitted seems more effective