I’m vegetarian. My partner is not. We mostly buy and eat vegetarian, but occasionally they’d like some real chicken or beef. I’ll even cook it for them, no problem. I just don’t eat it. It’s really easy to be in this type of relationship actually.
For real, I think it’s due to the nature of this being an Indi alternative platform. It is filled with extremists and people who get kicked out of other places.
Given that we are a social species, that sounds like a terrible way to get literally anything you want accomplished by anyone else.
More than that, it absolutely sounds like you hate people given the vitriol you spat at that person who clearly agrees with you a majority of the way.
You also, even if you don’t care about social norms clearly understand the difference between not, for instance, participating in a silly tradition, and being unnecessarily and unhelpfully rude and aggressive.
The veggie? I view them further away from vegan ideologically than the average person. It’s not an ethical stance it’s an aversion to flesh and/or trying to shift responsibility away from themselves.
And it wasn’t vitriol I just said she views animals as products so no surprise she doesn’t see an issue?
The silly tradition I don’t participate is in speaking to people like they’re too dumb to hear the truth. That’s how I learned.
Believing that animals should have basic rights, at least some degree of sovereignty; and the dignity to not be systematically confined, in constant abuse and outright torture, forcibly bred, exploited and enslaved in every possible way, to have their byproducts extracted to the detriment of their own health, and finally to be slaughtered on a scale that puts every other human atrocity to shame - is not a fucking purity test, it’s a god damn moral baseline.
But they’re really not. The harms and atrocities that come from dairy and eggs are arguably worse than meat itself, and the former industries drive the latter to some extent because it’s not profitable to care for animals for the duration of their natural lifespan.
Vegetarianism is neither ideologically or functionally different than any other form of animal commodification.
The harms and atrocities that come from dairy and eggs are arguably worse than meat itself
Certifiably cap, just from the scale of it all. Meat production has a non insignificant amount of environmental impact.
Dairy does too, but meat, you need more animals to kill.
and the former industries drive the latter to some extent
This is exactly backwards
Vegetarianism is neither ideologically or functionally different than any other form of animal commodification.
This is so absurd on its face that I don’t think you’re reasonable enough to bother arguing with, and don’t think anyone reading this will think you are, so I’d just be wasting my time.
Vegetarians aren’t carnists. Being reductionist is an immature thing. We do that for children so they can grasp things before they are ready for the full details.
I’m sorry, what? Do vegetarians not see themselves as having dominion over animals to do with what they please?
Carnism is a concept used in discussions of humanity’s relation to other animals, defined as a prevailing ideology in which people support the use and consumption of animal products
You don’t realize it, but this is actually a non sequitur. You’re right, I am a carnist! I don’t see a moral issue with a human (animal) eating an animal or animal based product. In fact, lots of animals eat animals!
You’re wrong, however, to say that I view animals as products. I do take issue with the industries relating to animal consumption. I take issue with the damage they do to the planet, I take issue with the way they treat the animals, and I take issue with the hygiene and working conditions for those involved. Ideally, I’d live in a world where it was possible to morally eat whatever you fancy. Unfortunately, I live in a world where you have to eat what you can afford.
Depends on the situation, if you’re a hunter gatherer and it’s your only source of sustinance sure, if you can get whatever you want from the supermarket choosing to still eat animals that’s needlessly cruel
Literally the only animal products I consume are ones that are cheaper to buy than alternatives: dairy cheese and eggs.
I spend extra on alternative milks. Alternative eggs are more expensive or significantly more effort (yes tofu scramble is doable. No I don’t have the time). I could live without cheese, or on alternative cheeses. But, cheese actually makes up a pretty large sum of calorie intake because it is cheap and can be made to be relatively healthy in most dishes.
It all boils down to money. I already spend extra money on alternative meats, and milks and raw fruits and vegetables. I still have to have money for my other responsibilities, so I make some dietary sacrifices. But I’m sure that poverty isn’t a good enough reason to sacrifice my purity to most vegans.
Ye, that does sound fair. Honest question; do you bake? In what way are eggs necessary? I’ve only been vegan for about two months, and haven’t missed eggs in any way; tofu scramble takes like 5 minutes, I just mix it in a pan, it’s good. I’m on a fairly low/ average budget and I manage to hit my calorie goals, macros and even gained a bit of weight (have had struggles with that my whole life)
Also where do you live? I’m lucky that milks are only slightly more expensive. I haven’t had any alternative meat, my proteins come from mostly legumes. And raw fruits and veggies are considered vegan food? I thought everyone was having those.
Also why care about “vegan purity checks”, you’re doing better than like 90% of people, the most important thing is to be happy with yourself.
This anecdote is irrelevant to the topic because you’re talking about merely cooking with different dietary preferences. Veganism is about respecting the lives, dignity, and autonomy of all animals, and therefore seeking to minimize harm done through personal actions and economic consumption. The only relation between the two topics is superficial. Carnism is absolutely a strain on relationships for vegans, and many would not consider partnering with people who gleefully consume the corpses of its victims.
I’m vegetarian. My partner is not. We mostly buy and eat vegetarian, but occasionally they’d like some real chicken or beef. I’ll even cook it for them, no problem. I just don’t eat it. It’s really easy to be in this type of relationship actually.
Of course, as vegetarians are carnists. Two carnists in a relationship is standard.
‘I still think animals are products so don’t mind when others also do’
I swear to god lemmy has the highest ratio of angsty purity testers I’ve ever seen.
I’ve never been any place online where people hate other people that match with them like 99% of the way so god damn much.
It is something to behold as a new user.
it’s common in all leftist spaces.
For real, I think it’s due to the nature of this being an Indi alternative platform. It is filled with extremists and people who get kicked out of other places.
Lemmy picks up the people who refuse to or can no longer use reddit.
I don’t hate anyone I’m just blunt and don’t care about social norms.
Given that we are a social species, that sounds like a terrible way to get literally anything you want accomplished by anyone else.
More than that, it absolutely sounds like you hate people given the vitriol you spat at that person who clearly agrees with you a majority of the way.
You also, even if you don’t care about social norms clearly understand the difference between not, for instance, participating in a silly tradition, and being unnecessarily and unhelpfully rude and aggressive.
The veggie? I view them further away from vegan ideologically than the average person. It’s not an ethical stance it’s an aversion to flesh and/or trying to shift responsibility away from themselves.
And it wasn’t vitriol I just said she views animals as products so no surprise she doesn’t see an issue?
The silly tradition I don’t participate is in speaking to people like they’re too dumb to hear the truth. That’s how I learned.
Believing that animals should have basic rights, at least some degree of sovereignty; and the dignity to not be systematically confined, in constant abuse and outright torture, forcibly bred, exploited and enslaved in every possible way, to have their byproducts extracted to the detriment of their own health, and finally to be slaughtered on a scale that puts every other human atrocity to shame - is not a fucking purity test, it’s a god damn moral baseline.
Except the other person is most of the way with that viewpoint, hence me calling it a purity test.
But they’re really not. The harms and atrocities that come from dairy and eggs are arguably worse than meat itself, and the former industries drive the latter to some extent because it’s not profitable to care for animals for the duration of their natural lifespan.
Vegetarianism is neither ideologically or functionally different than any other form of animal commodification.
Certifiably cap, just from the scale of it all. Meat production has a non insignificant amount of environmental impact.
Dairy does too, but meat, you need more animals to kill.
This is exactly backwards
This is so absurd on its face that I don’t think you’re reasonable enough to bother arguing with, and don’t think anyone reading this will think you are, so I’d just be wasting my time.
Thats bullshit and you know it, go be a pissed off teenager somewhere else.
Bullshit how?
Vegetarians aren’t carnists. Being reductionist is an immature thing. We do that for children so they can grasp things before they are ready for the full details.
I’m sorry, what? Do vegetarians not see themselves as having dominion over animals to do with what they please?
No, they dont. Go learn more about how actual people live in the real world.
Yes they do. Otherwise they’d realise it’s not theirs to take and not partake.
Just because some people dont live according to your definitions doesnt make them wrong, it makes them different. Different doesnt mean good or bad.
Dairy cows and hens are still destined for the meat grinder, regardless of the vegetarian’s choices.
So you’re absolutely right. Sad to see the downvotes
nooo you can’t be plainly stating facts!!! I wanted to circlejerk about muh moral relativism!!
May the downvoters be reborn as dairy cows.
Brave soldier taking the downvotes. honestly lemmy has been disappointing and not much of an improvement on Reddit in mindset
Well, at least downvotes don’t rate limit you here so they’re powerless to stop me)
You’re surprised that a website designed like reddit attracts the same type of people as reddit?
You don’t realize it, but this is actually a non sequitur. You’re right, I am a carnist! I don’t see a moral issue with a human (animal) eating an animal or animal based product. In fact, lots of animals eat animals!
You’re wrong, however, to say that I view animals as products. I do take issue with the industries relating to animal consumption. I take issue with the damage they do to the planet, I take issue with the way they treat the animals, and I take issue with the hygiene and working conditions for those involved. Ideally, I’d live in a world where it was possible to morally eat whatever you fancy. Unfortunately, I live in a world where you have to eat what you can afford.
Depends on the situation, if you’re a hunter gatherer and it’s your only source of sustinance sure, if you can get whatever you want from the supermarket choosing to still eat animals that’s needlessly cruel
God I wish I had that kind of money
legumes and plant stuff is generally cheaper than animal stuff, so it’s a good way to save too potentially
Literally the only animal products I consume are ones that are cheaper to buy than alternatives: dairy cheese and eggs.
I spend extra on alternative milks. Alternative eggs are more expensive or significantly more effort (yes tofu scramble is doable. No I don’t have the time). I could live without cheese, or on alternative cheeses. But, cheese actually makes up a pretty large sum of calorie intake because it is cheap and can be made to be relatively healthy in most dishes.
It all boils down to money. I already spend extra money on alternative meats, and milks and raw fruits and vegetables. I still have to have money for my other responsibilities, so I make some dietary sacrifices. But I’m sure that poverty isn’t a good enough reason to sacrifice my purity to most vegans.
Ye, that does sound fair. Honest question; do you bake? In what way are eggs necessary? I’ve only been vegan for about two months, and haven’t missed eggs in any way; tofu scramble takes like 5 minutes, I just mix it in a pan, it’s good. I’m on a fairly low/ average budget and I manage to hit my calorie goals, macros and even gained a bit of weight (have had struggles with that my whole life) Also where do you live? I’m lucky that milks are only slightly more expensive. I haven’t had any alternative meat, my proteins come from mostly legumes. And raw fruits and veggies are considered vegan food? I thought everyone was having those. Also why care about “vegan purity checks”, you’re doing better than like 90% of people, the most important thing is to be happy with yourself.
The time, for tofu scramble? It’s literally quicker cheaper and much healthier than doing it with eggs???
Same thing with egg salad, etc. few packs of silken tofu in a Tupperware with black salt, butter, etc.
any sources on eggs being unhealthy? I don’t eat them for ethical reasons but I thought they were full of good nutrients and minerals and such
No you were right in the first paragraph. I was right, it wasn’t a non sequitur.
This anecdote is irrelevant to the topic because you’re talking about merely cooking with different dietary preferences. Veganism is about respecting the lives, dignity, and autonomy of all animals, and therefore seeking to minimize harm done through personal actions and economic consumption. The only relation between the two topics is superficial. Carnism is absolutely a strain on relationships for vegans, and many would not consider partnering with people who gleefully consume the corpses of its victims.