because you need to replace the love you can have for yourself with love for God. You’re a miserable wretch who should feel terrible about your own existence, but by loving God, even someone as worthless as you can be loved. Turning your back on the Lord is impossible when when you rely on him for your own self worth; when without feeling his love you are rendered depressed and hopeless. Besides, it’s easier to love a perfect being than to love yourself, so this addiction is the easier option to doing that hard work.
but by loving God, even someone as worthless as you can be loved.
It’s worth pointing out, in my experience, most of the churches I’ve attended swapped cause and effect - that God loved humans so much that he sacrificed his son, which is a reason to love him. Most I’ve attended don’t teach to hate yourself, rather that what you experience now is the baseline of being a “sinner”. Basically, you’re already in the bad place. No need to hate yourself further. Maybe the churches I attended were just more carrot and less stick.
I haven’t practiced religion in a while, but since this seems to be a response to a genuine question, it seems prudent to offer what is typically, in my experience, preached alongside a clearly sardonic answer.
The better ones don’t focus on hating yourself, but them telling you to receive love from God is still a substitute for self love. They don’t need to beat most people’s self worth into submission, as most people naturally struggle with self love. It’s hard to accept yourself, but easier to accept others (at least on average). By loving an entity you can’t actually meet, you can indirectly receive your own love by imagining it loves you. You don’t need to love your flawed self because God will love your flawed self. Just love the one who forgives and you never need to forgive yourself.
The ones that teach what Jesus supposedly did do not substitute God’s love for self love. He was asked if the myriad Jewish laws were still in effect or if Jesus’ coming had nullifiedthem according to prophecy. Jesus basically says, “love God, love your neighbor, and love yourself. Do these 3 things, and you will never break any moral law. You don’t need a list of commandments to follow, because you won’t break them if you follow these three.”
This is exactly how the mob works. They beat you up (tell you have sin for super natural things like sex and being born), and then you have to make up for those natural things the rest of your life (guilt and give money to the church). Yes, they provide the carrots, but only after they’ve repeatedly hit you with a stick. They’ll then “save” you from the stick.
tell you have sin for super natural things like sex and being born
Idk, it doesn’t bother me to be told I’m a sinner cuz the same doctrine preaches that everyone’s a sinner. You, me, the goddamn pope. Ned Flanders himself is also a sinner. The guy yelling at people through a megaphone with the turn or burn speech? You bet your ass he’s a sinner.
It’s kinda setting a baseline - humanity itself is flawed. It def has its peaks and highpoints, but I cannot deny that it is flawed, esp amidst today’s political and environmental concerns - can you?
I’m not bothered by acknowledging we’re imperfect shitters, since that sticker is applied to humanity as a whole. Even the most pious, trying their hardest to adhere to religion person, is still preached to be a sinner. Christianity then preaches that nothing you can do can change that except to accept to accept Jesus or something.
Idk - I’m probs not not the best discussion partner for this as I’m not particularly keen on spirituality and I’m likely missing nuance.
guilt and give money to the church
There might be those, but what drew me to the churches I attended was that they also regularly served the community. Hell, I was a homeless ministry outreach leader myself for years when I was in college. Every week we’d split up into pairs walking around downtown area at night handing out food, water, and building up relationships with folks.
Pfffft, no thanks! Jesus already put in the intellectual and emotional labor for all of us, so I’m not going to spit in his face by thinking for myself, thank you very much!
because you need to replace the love you can have for yourself with love for God. You’re a miserable wretch who should feel terrible about your own existence, but by loving God, even someone as worthless as you can be loved. Turning your back on the Lord is impossible when when you rely on him for your own self worth; when without feeling his love you are rendered depressed and hopeless. Besides, it’s easier to love a perfect being than to love yourself, so this addiction is the easier option to doing that hard work.
It’s worth pointing out, in my experience, most of the churches I’ve attended swapped cause and effect - that God loved humans so much that he sacrificed his son, which is a reason to love him. Most I’ve attended don’t teach to hate yourself, rather that what you experience now is the baseline of being a “sinner”. Basically, you’re already in the bad place. No need to hate yourself further. Maybe the churches I attended were just more carrot and less stick.
I haven’t practiced religion in a while, but since this seems to be a response to a genuine question, it seems prudent to offer what is typically, in my experience, preached alongside a clearly sardonic answer.
The better ones don’t focus on hating yourself, but them telling you to receive love from God is still a substitute for self love. They don’t need to beat most people’s self worth into submission, as most people naturally struggle with self love. It’s hard to accept yourself, but easier to accept others (at least on average). By loving an entity you can’t actually meet, you can indirectly receive your own love by imagining it loves you. You don’t need to love your flawed self because God will love your flawed self. Just love the one who forgives and you never need to forgive yourself.
The ones that teach what Jesus supposedly did do not substitute God’s love for self love. He was asked if the myriad Jewish laws were still in effect or if Jesus’ coming had nullifiedthem according to prophecy. Jesus basically says, “love God, love your neighbor, and love yourself. Do these 3 things, and you will never break any moral law. You don’t need a list of commandments to follow, because you won’t break them if you follow these three.”
and yet, many Christians are great at ignoring everything based Jesus ever said.
BELIEVE IN THE ME THAT BELIEVES IN YOU
This is exactly how the mob works. They beat you up (tell you have sin for super natural things like sex and being born), and then you have to make up for those natural things the rest of your life (guilt and give money to the church). Yes, they provide the carrots, but only after they’ve repeatedly hit you with a stick. They’ll then “save” you from the stick.
Idk, it doesn’t bother me to be told I’m a sinner cuz the same doctrine preaches that everyone’s a sinner. You, me, the goddamn pope. Ned Flanders himself is also a sinner. The guy yelling at people through a megaphone with the turn or burn speech? You bet your ass he’s a sinner.
It’s kinda setting a baseline - humanity itself is flawed. It def has its peaks and highpoints, but I cannot deny that it is flawed, esp amidst today’s political and environmental concerns - can you?
I’m not bothered by acknowledging we’re imperfect shitters, since that sticker is applied to humanity as a whole. Even the most pious, trying their hardest to adhere to religion person, is still preached to be a sinner. Christianity then preaches that nothing you can do can change that except to accept to accept Jesus or something.
Idk - I’m probs not not the best discussion partner for this as I’m not particularly keen on spirituality and I’m likely missing nuance.
There might be those, but what drew me to the churches I attended was that they also regularly served the community. Hell, I was a homeless ministry outreach leader myself for years when I was in college. Every week we’d split up into pairs walking around downtown area at night handing out food, water, and building up relationships with folks.
There are some good churches out there, it sounds like you were lucky enough to find one.
100%. I fully recognize that this is solely what I’ve experienced and not what’s taught across the board (especially maybe in Republican states).
Pfffft, no thanks! Jesus already put in the intellectual and emotional labor for all of us, so I’m not going to spit in his face by thinking for myself, thank you very much!