This Microsoft outage being the last drop in the bucket, I’m looking to get my email/calendar/contacts somewhere under my control.
As I already self-host a number of things (e.g. my Linux ISO collection), and have services exposed to the internet, it would make sense to run it at home.
After all, it’s not heavy lifting. It’s not hosting 500+ mailboxes for 100+ people. It’s just little old me, with a handful of domains, catch-all receiving and a few dedicated sending addresses.
However email is a bit more mission critical than my smarthome control or self hosted LLMs. Downtime could be critically bad, and I still don’t trust my home setup to be truly 99.999999% available.
I don’t mind paying for a service but if I do I’d prefer something European, given I’m based in the UK (and otherwise am an EU citizen).
I’m really curious how y’all solve it. I guess I’m interested in some kind of hybrid solution where there’s my own server and a hosted service, latter which acts as a backup solution, but still fully synced, so if my internet or power goes out (or my server goes down), I can still get mail sent and delivered.
So I’m not only just interested in the stack you run for email but the entire infrastructure, especially if you’ve solved this sort of off-site fallback service.
I use mailbox.org but if you have your heart set on self hosting id say stalwart is a good selfhostable email service
Instead of hosting your own mail server, use a service like SimpleLogin. It allows you to configure custom domains on the paid plan and it simply redirect any email sent to an email alias to your actual inbox. So you never share your actual email address. Secondly, if tomorrow you change email providers, all you have to do is change the destination behind those aliases for the custom domains. It also does catch-all aliases so you can make them up on the fly.
yeah, no thanks. my whole goal is to move away from unreliable megacorps hosted email, not make my domains rely on them too.
I moved away for self hosting email, but my advice would be to look at anti spam providers. Most can act as both an incoming and outgoing filter for your emails, and will hold on to email if your mailbox host is down. It also means for outgoing you don’t need to warm up an IP to have your messages accepted.
Of course you still need to setup SPF/dmarc/etc but it takes out some of the fuzzier parts of email deliverablity…
I own a business. We hit 9 years in September. When we started we did O365. At that time, a business as small as us had to go with a Microsoft “partner” because MS wasn’t going to deal with a business as small as us. We were immediately “man in the middle” hacked. We’d been in business 3 months and someone was grabbing our incoming emails and replying as if they were us. We had no idea. They changed payment terms and re-routed our checks as direct payments to some digital accounts in Miami (USA). I have no doubt that it was our Microsoft “partner” that set us up with O365 and Lync (this was a long time ago). When we pressed Microsoft about it they became totally unresponsive or nasty. We lost about $25,000 dollars right at the very beginning of our business. It was a very dark time for me. But, honestly, that was the best $25K I ever spent. Talk about “attack Surface”.!!! Now I do Fastmail, Nextcloud a nd other self hosted services. I am absolutely convinced that losing $25k was an absurd bargain. People on O365/ SharePoint/Teams get hacked every fucking day. But they don’t tell you about it.
Are there issues with domains not being accepted?
You mean by other email servers? I haven’t had any issues yet.
Yeah I have heard of issues with websites accepting the addresses as legitimate and the like of outlook auto filtering
Mail is something I don’t want to touch. I use mailbox which is hosted in germany for some years now. For calendar & contacts I use the built-in Nextcloud apps, they also work pretty well
Edit: I self-host Nextcloud, so contacts & calender are on my private server
Same here in terms of don’t want to touch mail. I use migadu, swiss company hosting in france. Works flawlessly. There was a good blogpost some time ago comparing mail services, let me check… there it is: Blogpost
Shout out to Migadu, great service!
Where did you find where are they hosted? I couldn’t find it on their website last ve looked them up. Too bad they only accept $, I had considered them heavily because I like their mindset regarding inbox/folder.
I went with Soverin to have unlimited alias included in my plan.
https://www.migadu.com/procon/#in-switzerland-but-servers-are-not
In Switzerland, but servers are not
This may come as a surprise, but we do not host our servers in Switzerland. Current data centers are located in France. We may in the near future add Swiss data centers too but this is not our priority.
We find EU privacy laws much more elaborate and restrictive than the Swiss ones. Switzerland used to be famous for banking secrecy, but that has nothing to do with digital data.
Yea, me aswell. Also in the mailbox and am really happy with their service, but don’t they use Open-Xchange? I don’t think its Nextcloud.
Mailbox uses Open-xchange, but the user most likely has nextcloud selfhosted.
yep thats the case, should have written my message better ^^"
Docker mail server dms on hetzner , if you set your dns for multiple mx you can have a fallback at home or another dms in a different data center and replicate it with dovecot sync
I self-host it with https://gitlab.com/simple-nixos-mailserver/nixos-mailserver.
- I had to set it up with all these SPF and DKIM and DMARC stuff. Wasn’t too hard, just follow the guide. Test with GMail - the message details view says exactly what you have, what you haven’t, and what’s wrong.
- Every now and then I have to jump through some hoops to get my IP allowlisted in some weird provider or antispam system.
Email is a very old protocol, it originates from the time when computers were connected only occasionally. It is very much possible to come an agreement to power up the antennas at something o’clock every day to exchange emails, and the rest of the time they just sit in the queue.
Practically speaking, if your home lab is down for something like 12h, it should not impact email delivery much at all - the sending servers would just keep retrying. Usually for 48h. From https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5321#section-4.5.4.1
mail that cannot be transmitted immediately MUST be queued and periodically retried by the sender.
The sender MUST delay retrying a particular destination after one attempt has failed.
Retries continue until the message is transmitted or the sender gives up; the give-up time generally needs to be at least 4-5 days.
Microsoft documents this: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/defender-office-365/mail-flow-about#mail-flow-delivery-faq
Deferred messages remain in our queues for one day.
I guess technically they’re RFC-compliant, but 1 day is not as much as I’d like…
Were you actually able to get good domain reputation with your sever on a residential ip?
No idea. I keep hearing the term, “IP reputation”, but I don’t know any official registry where I could look up mine.
- I can deliver to GMail, because I set up SPF, DKIM, DMARC, and that special GMail-only TXT record in DNS:
"google-site-verification=<base64-or-what>" - I can deliver to Outlook, because I registered by IP in https://check.spamhaus.org/
- Every now and then, I encounter a new, weird and wonderful kind of spam protection, and I have to figure out how to get my IP listed in the “known legit email servers”
All told, I can deliver email, AFAICT. If it lands in spam, well, tough luck - email from large providers also does.
- I can deliver to GMail, because I set up SPF, DKIM, DMARC, and that special GMail-only TXT record in DNS:
I’ve self-hosted email for over 20 years but I’m now moving to Fastmail for two reasons: (1) succession, I’m the only one in my house that understands how it works, and (2) email is never fully under your control and the large providers may decide to filter/drop email from your domain. But this is self-hosted, and I did enjoy my years doing it, so go for it if you want. I had good luck with OpenBSD/OpenSMTPD/Dovecot stack. Good luck!
Edit: I forgot to mention you can do a hybrid approach; handle receiving yourself and use a service like smtp2go.com to do delivery.
I’ve been using smtp2go for the past 2 ish years for outbound email, and it’s been great! I have no complaints.
I’ve been meaning to set up something similar. I really don’t feel like dealing with reliable delivery, but I also don’t want to give my plentiful incoming mail to someone just so I can send like 5 emails a year.
I selfhost. My ISP has a mail relay so it doesn’t appear to come from my residential IP. The problem is that the relay is on more blacklists than I am.
Mail is a piece of software I won’t bother self-hosting. I already tried, put in it a lot of time, trying to get my IP address considered safe because it was banned 15 years before I had it, to only have a third of my mail sent successfully received. It is not worth the effort and I switched to proton and recently to infomaniak.
Self-hosting email is like making your own butter.
It’s possible, but most people don’t want to take it on themselves.
Calendar and contacts I’d argue are good candidates to self host. If a config is off and you can’t access them for a day or two, does it matter?
But if email is down, you risk missing something important. If you have a trust issue and everything you send is getting flagged as spam? Hard and slow to fix.
If the problem you’re trying to solve is Flaky and Unethical Big Tech, I would look at finding another, smaller provider and paying for it. Rolling it yourself is a great way to learn entirely too much about mail servers and spending way too much of your free time on it.
Servers retry delivery. It needs to be offline for a while before you miss stuff.
Receiving everything is the easy bit. It’s sending that’s hard. Every recipient is looking for a reason to spambox you.
One thing you should know, the SMTP protocol is designed to work with intermittent network connections like modem, each email has several days of grace period, with many retries, so you don’t need 99.999% uptime.
Just a mailbox at IONOS for 1x Business plan and 25 “free” (2gb) mailbox.
Costs me 7€ per month. And so far almost zero downtime.What the fuck you are paying 7 Euro PER MONTH for your mailbox?
26 mailboxes? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If it works and is hosted on domestic servers, i am fine with it.
So far no issues with IONOS as my provider.Yeah 26 Mailboxes with 2GB storage for each … You know that there are Catch-All-Adresses right? You can receive everything@tld into a single mailbox.
🤷
I’m going back to my KISS mindset.
I got the Mozilla ThunderMail invite and using ThinderBird for the client. It’s all basic, direct and just works.
Agree with most folks here, mail is too hard to self host because of the control larger providers hold around acceptance rules. I use zoho for my email, been pretty solid so far though I’m sure there are others. I use nextcloud for contacts, tried using nextcloud for calendar but had trouble getting it to send invites to people so I just use zoho for calendar as well now.
Off site fallback I sync email, calendar and contacts to multiple machines but I also use back blaze as an off site cloud backup. One day I’ll get around to syncing the emails to my home server and also backing those up to backblaze.
This is all for personal use though, if I was doing anything enterprise or mission critical I’d just pay another provider to do it who isn’t a vibe coded nonsense factory.










